CNG trucks... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

LaRondo · #31 03-06-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

"Gasoline in Europe sells for over $8 per gallon (about 4.5 liters), therefore a government mandate to motivate conversion to alternative fuels is unnecessary. Nonetheless, financial incentives from the government to pay for as much as 75% of conversion costs, and environmental concerns provide further incentives among the European community."

...and there is the answer.

one can also use a multitude of optional transportation without spending a dime on gas/diesel, throughout the EU.

It's a perfectly flawed comparison. People like you fall for it, obviously.

Btw, they don't sell gallons in the EU.

Your presentation is inadequate, but I suppose you also walk around with one pair of shoes for as long as possible because you got no incentive to change to another pair. Figures.

Emmerich · #32 03-06-2011, 07:41 PM

MyPhill is a home compressor, hooks into a home gas line downstream of your meter. Because of the low pressure and volume, it takes overnight to fill a cars tank. They use to cost $4k but there was a tax credit that offset most or all of that, don't know if that is still in effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I'm wondering if home compressing stations might be dicey. Compressing a highly flammable gas leaves a lot of room for calamity. Hate to sound like a wuss but somehow I think eventually such 'stations' are bound to go wrong in a big way, with much breathless news coverage after.

pawoSD · #33 03-07-2011, 01:17 AM

I saw a chevy pickup with a dual tank system at the detroit auto show in January....it could switch between CNG and regular gas on the fly.

Emmerich · #34 03-07-2011, 01:39 AM

If you go dual fuel you have to give up your trunk for the CNG tank, otherwise it replaces the gas tank. Plus you can't tune the car optimally for either fuel. For best results pick one and tune the engine for that fuel.

Converting requires very little parts, but the advertisers make it sound like you need a bunch of new stuff or that you car needs to be built for CNG. You can see the same BS with regards to biodiesel.

Go to big-toys.net and check out the gas conversions, Franz will answer your questions.

75Sv1 · #35 03-07-2011, 09:44 AM

I did look into this a few years back. I think it was when gas went up to $2/gal. and everyone was freaking out. Yeh, $2 would be nice today. There was a CNG conversion for a '95 Cherokee on E-Bay at the time. It was a dual fuel unit. I think the Fed Gov bought some of these. You will see some Ford Contour, Ford Crown Vics, Chevy Caveliers, and some trucks on E-Bay with CNG.
One of the guys were I work worked on this stuff at a previous job. He said about a 10 precent loss in power and possibly fuel milage. I did the math, it it broke even at the time. There were only two filling stations in my state, both 1 hour away. So, if the infrastructure is there, then it might be feasable. Also, the reduced range. But if dual fuel, then you'd still be able to run gas.
From what I understand, if the motor is built for CNG, it can run higher compression and get as good or better mpg. Also, some do conversions. I want to say $1500 for the kit, then labor. Also, check as some of the propane kits are not certified, and are for Off Road. I don't know about the CNG kits though.
Tom

PaulC · #36 03-07-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I'd build it a bit away from the house in its own shed. I'm not to worried.

Which would be key. I wouldn't be too keen on having a natural gas leak near the air inlet for my furnace. Might make things a bit too interesting for my tastes.

lutzTD · #37 03-07-2011, 10:34 AM

I saw a ton of NG pickups when I worked in Mexico years ago. Seemed like every 3rd one had a tank. I would do it, but FL has no NG infrastructure.

Hatterasguy · #38 03-07-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

I did look into this a few years back. I think it was when gas went up to $2/gal. and everyone was freaking out. Yeh, $2 would be nice today. There was a CNG conversion for a '95 Cherokee on E-Bay at the time. It was a dual fuel unit. I think the Fed Gov bought some of these. You will see some Ford Contour, Ford Crown Vics, Chevy Caveliers, and some trucks on E-Bay with CNG.
One of the guys were I work worked on this stuff at a previous job. He said about a 10 precent loss in power and possibly fuel milage. I did the math, it it broke even at the time. There were only two filling stations in my state, both 1 hour away. So, if the infrastructure is there, then it might be feasable. Also, the reduced range. But if dual fuel, then you'd still be able to run gas.
From what I understand, if the motor is built for CNG, it can run higher compression and get as good or better mpg. Also, some do conversions. I want to say $1500 for the kit, then labor. Also, check as some of the propane kits are not certified, and are for Off Road. I don't know about the CNG kits though.
Tom

That's why I would want a factory truck, GM changes quite a bit on the 6L to get it to run on CNG the same way it does with gas, ie increased compression, different valves and timing, different fuel injection system, etc.

Also a kit would void your warranty, GM offers the same 5 year 100k mile warranty on its CNG vans.

LaRondo · #39 03-11-2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

There is no incentive, fuel prices are much to low to make an "alternative fuel" cost effective. Allow gasoline/diesel to increase to a reasonable price and you will see alternative vehicles being purchased by actual consumers.

The bottom line incentive is "Freedom of Choice", which is a fundamental aspect of this republic.

Here is a little sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELDHaeEsNF0&feature=player_embedded

...reasonable price, my heenie

layback40 · #40 03-11-2011, 06:38 AM

Conversions to CNG duel fuel systems have been common in New Zealand for around 30 years. I supervised a trial of CNG/diesel on semi truck /trailers about 25 years ago. There is a few diesel/CNG buses in use in South Australia. If you can get a high pressure pump at the right price, its very economical over here. natural gas is less than 1/4 the price of petrol or diesel.

75Sv1 · #41 03-11-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Conversions to CNG duel fuel systems have been common in New Zealand for around 30 years. I supervised a trial of CNG/diesel on semi truck /trailers about 25 years ago. There is a few diesel/CNG buses in use in South Australia. If you can get a high pressure pump at the right price, its very economical over here. natural gas is less than 1/4 the price of petrol or diesel.

I think Austrailia exports natural gas. There were plans for super cooled or LNG tankers from Austrailia to the West Coast. Some concerns with Terrorism and stuff.
I did see an article on CNN. It was on Butanol. It is a more complex form of alcohol, than ethanol or methanol. It is suppose to be a direct replacement for gas. So no special mods or special needs to transport it. It dealt with gene splicing on bacteria. Some bateria produce it naturally, but they don't digest cellulose. Other simular bacteria digest cellulose, but produce something else.
So, relatively the biofuels are still in their infancy. It seems the big push is to transition from food/grain sources to waste sources. At what price level that is economically feasable? I'd say somewhere over $100/barrel.
Tom

layback40 · #42 03-11-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

I think Austrailia exports natural gas. There were plans for super cooled or LNG tankers from Austrailia to the West Coast. Some concerns with Terrorism and stuff.
I did see an article on CNN. It was on Butanol. It is a more complex form of alcohol, than ethanol or methanol. It is suppose to be a direct replacement for gas. So no special mods or special needs to transport it. It dealt with gene splicing on bacteria. Some bateria produce it naturally, but they don't digest cellulose. Other simular bacteria digest cellulose, but produce something else.
So, relatively the biofuels are still in their infancy. It seems the big push is to transition from food/grain sources to waste sources. At what price level that is economically feasable? I'd say somewhere over $100/barrel.
Tom

Australia does or is about to export LNG. Indonesia & other nations have been for over 30 years. We have a member on here LNGfish who used to be an engineer on a LNG tanker between Bontang, Indonesia & japan.

Yeast do a good job of making ethanol, people have been getting them to do it for thousands of years.
Next time you drink a glass of champagne, just remember that the bubbles & alcohol are just waste products of yeast. You are consuming a glass of diluted yeast p#ss, carbonated with yeast belching/f#rting . No wonder it gives such bad head aches !

shoe · #43 03-11-2011, 07:22 AM

I manage a fleet of about a thousand pieces of equipment and about thirty of the are bi-fueled pick ups. we have extensive experience running these pick ups from purchasing factory conversions to performing actual conversions in house. I can tell you with out question STAY AWAY FROM DUAL FUEL VEHICLES!!!!! they are not worth the expense of keeping running. Yes CNG is an excellent motor fuel when it is the only fuel used. The electronics on vehicles today are too smart for dual fuel operation without complete buy in from the car MFG's and they are not thrill with allowing a third party to have all of their ECM source codes and programming it takes to have an effective duel fuel vehicle. The factory units you all are speaking of are just glorified conversions; Ford or GM just ships a new vehicle right off the assembly line to a conversion company they do theri thing and ship it to dealers.

Now dedicated CnG is not bad the biggest issue is sufficient fuel capacity. To store 20 to 30 gasoline gallon equivalent you have to fill the bed of the pick up with tanks.

layback40 · #44 03-11-2011, 07:57 AM

This post appeared today in the alt fuels sub forum.

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
cng/diesel injection
Had anyone heard of this?

With the fuel prices going so high , I decided to do this to my 81 300SD.

It now has 2 cng fuel tanks in the trunk and runs a mixture. Certainly more power and much much cheaper to drive.

The website I found it at was ewsews.com If you are mechanically inclined, you can do this youself. As for tanks, don't buy a new tank, look on Craiglist or ebay,.

75Sv1 · #45 03-11-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

This post appeared today in the alt fuels sub forum.

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
cng/diesel injection
Had anyone heard of this?

With the fuel prices going so high , I decided to do this to my 81 300SD.

It now has 2 cng fuel tanks in the trunk and runs a mixture. Certainly more power and much much cheaper to drive.

The website I found it at was ewsews.com If you are mechanically inclined, you can do this youself. As for tanks, don't buy a new tank, look on Craiglist or ebay,.

To some or a large extent it might be better to convert a diesel motor. They have higher compression, so they are better able to take advantage of the higher 'octane' rating of Propane or CNG. I think some turbo anti lag devices flow a bit of propane. Most see a mpg increase, but I don't know if they add in the cost of the propane or not.
There are natural gas engines 'converted' or redesigned to run on propane or NG. They do have spark plugs for ignition.
Tom