Way to read part of what i wrote and extrapolate from taht!

Here is teh first part that you ignored: Guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of peers is good enough for me.

Not beyond all possible doubt. Hell, I doubt the sunrising to some infinitesimal degree--acknowledging that the sun could supernova is not irrational. It is highly unlikely. If I had to stay in bed until there was no doubt that the sun might come up I could never get out of bed.

When I wrote, "After that, pray for divine intervention", I clearly intended to convey that after the judicial system has fully processed your appeals, you might consider religion because the needle is heading for a vein near you.

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If you look at my comment it was regarding the current 'politically correct' view and not directed at any posting (so far).

It's a comment on the zeitgeist.

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The position of the Catholic church on various matters may at times be wise, foolish, consistent or inconsistent with mine but is not relevant to anything I have EVER said.

You may as well say the views of the gas station down the street.

Many strands of Christianity (do I need to enumerate them?) do not and some have never defined themselves, their identity as Christians, their values, etc in terms of the Catholic church.

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Is "Guilty beyond reasonable doubt" good and sufficient reason to convict a person of a criminal act?

If it is, then we can move to discussing punishment. If is not, then we need to discuss this standard.

The "death penalty" (DP) is just that...it's a penalty, not a deterent.

If you WANT to fix anything, fix the problem before the "penalty phase" is reached.

Like...a chance at three separate trials when the DP is on the table? 2 out of 3 falls and you're toast/worm food?

When society reaches the point that the majority values the life of a killer over that of his victim(s) is where you'll see more of the former than the latter.

Our society has just about reached that point.

Maybe another way to compensate someone's ESTATE is to prosecute and take the life of the individuals responsible for having the innocent party executed...

I couldn't think of a better example of "premeditated murder" than having "witnesses," cop(s), prosecutor and/or a judge colluding to go after an individual that ultimately results in that person's execution.

But...in lew of that, the DP is just one of many tools in the Prosecutor's tool box.

BTW: Since Californication still has Chucky Manson gettin' three squares and a cot...how do the folks out there feel about warehousing that piece of filth all these years? What has that totalled out to? A few million+++?

I wonder how that still manages to escape the bookkeepers out there?

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Personally, I'd go for a modification of your system. Have the death penalty only for multiple murders -- three murder convictions ON SEPARATE OCCASIONS, via separate courts and juries = mandatory death penalty. Otherwise, 25-life for the first and second offenses. Even if one of the convictions is incorrect, one is unlikely to be falsely convicted of murder 3x.

Already done -- perjury in a capital case resulting in an incorrect death sentence is already a capital offense in many states.

I don't have any problem with "housing" Manson knowing that the result was not executing another person that didn't commit a crime for which they were sentenced to death.

From a KPBS documentary this year:

There are about 35,000 lifers in California prisons. Using government statistics, KPBS calculated how much money the state pays to imprison inmates for a life sentence. If Inmate X is incarcerated at age 37, he costs taxpayers about $49,000 a year. But as he ages, his health care expenses will increase. At age 55, he could cost the state $150,000 a year. If he lives until he's 77, he will cost California taxpayers as much $4 million to keep him in prison for life.

That is fantastic, fine and I am completely at ease with your perspective.

Some have a different perspective. They ask you to accept their right to theirs and to discuss it in the public forum.

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It IS about putting people at ease with their decision. What nobody has been able to tell me is how we can imprison a person say from 2000 to 2005, say "Oops, sorry" and give him those years and time back.

Tossing you in prison gives you the REST of your life, for as long as it may be back. It WILL NOT give you the years wrongfully taken from you. As I know it, no amount of compensation will. So, in PRINCIPLE, it is the same as tossing a few bucks to the wrongfully executed man's family and say "Here, take it and it should be all good.".

As soon as someone can show me how they can roll back time, I will withdraw my objection that imprisonment is IN PRINCIPLE the same as the death penalty if a mistake is made. The best I have heard is "At least you can give him......". Nope, you cannot give back what you took so anything you can give is a poor substitute for what you took wrongfully

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Along those same lines, there's no basis for any personal injury award. Money can never compensate for pain and suffering, loss of limb, etc. Taken even further, there is no non-monetary compensation that can "roll back time" as you put it. So, injured persons should just lump it and move on.

Could one not argue that something is better than nothing so long as you are alive to enjoy it?

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Your extrapolation, not mine.

But yes, you cannot roll back time. It is a fact we have to realize. I understand that will not make people like you comfortable but there it is. Sure, the personal injury award can make your new but more difficult life easier to bear and it also serves to punish the guilty party but yes, it cannot bring your severed and mangled leg back.

Your thought pattern does give you plenty of peace of mind so you can make mistakes and be comforted that there is a way you can say "At least...." and the crap that goes with it. Realizing that you cannot roll back the clock is going to be painful when you realize that so you choose to sooth yourself just in case you make the mistake.

Is it good to make the mistake in any case? No. Can we do anything to roll back time? No. All we can do in any case is toss "hush money" at the problem. As a victim, all I can do is accept the "hush money" or try to push for more. Since I cannot get time back, that is what I am forced to SETTLE for.

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Was Illinois where the convictions of something like 30% of the people on death row were found to be unsound good enough for you?

One more reason to oppose the death penalty as applied in the US: lethal injection. It requires the use of medical professionals who were trained to save lives, not to kill. Personally, I think any medical professional found to have prostituted their services by carrying out executions should lose their job, be stripped of their license, and drummed out of any professional organizations that they're a member of.

If you're going to execute, use something simple and foolproof like the guillotine or shooting -- no doctors required, only hired killers.

A fair and valid argument. However, that will NOT absolve you of the inequity caused by your stupid judgment, will it? Your stupidity of getting drunk and plowing into my kid can be absolved by that "something is better than nothing" or "2nd place, first loser" belief. Hence it's popularity. Tonight you can go to bed contented knowing that your insurance paid me off for your stupidity and life is good. In the meantime, I have to accept that your drunken behavior killed my kid and there is little else I can do except accept your "hush money". After all, since you cannot give more, I might as well accept your insurance company's hush money as opposed to getting nothing out of my kid's death.

This "hush money" is more about buying your absolution for your mistake than my fixing of the problem.

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Yes. But what is the percentage of wrongly incarcerated?

You want it as painless as possible, who else would be able to do that? Your gardener?

Not a problem. Till someone squawks that it is causing them suffering, as though they didn't deserve it.

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Offer an oral dose of a tranquilizer sufficient to cause unconsciousness before the deed is done. Again, no doctor or nurse required.

Using medical professionals in executions reduces trust in the whole medical system -- wondering whether the anesthesiologist that is knocking you out for surgery is also a hired killer isn't a happy thought.