Draconian cuts or....... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #31 04-05-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10fords

You have been drinking way too much koolaid! While it is true that more Californians voted for democrats (although most of them are from out of state and moved here for the gay friendly climate of San Fransicko then spread their disease around the state) both parties voted against ANY new taxes in November. California has been raising taxes and it is NOT working! I used to respect your views as you seemed to be reasonable and honest, but if you truly believe that rising taxes in California have been good for the state, and more taxes would be even better, I have to question your sanity. Last November not one tax increase, that we were able to vote on, passed despite the percentage of bleeding heart liberals in my once great birthplace.

You jettisoned credibility with that one. California's population is about 37 million. The gay population (LGBT) is estimated at 3%.

Best I can gather, the nationwide estimate is 2 to 3%. I don't have a major dog in this fight, I'm not gay, but I do get a little weary at all the angst devoted to the issue and the regular slamming of the People's Republic over it.

Skid Row Joe · #32 04-05-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

"Elections have consequences", Barack Obama!

Exactly!

MS Fowler · #33 04-06-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

The budget is small potatoes . . . it's the debt ceiling that will be the killer. Will the US, for the first time in history default on Treasurys?

Your solution is simply to raise the debt ceiling?
Rather simplistic, no?
Your boat is sinking so rather than 1) Stop the leak, and 2) pump out the excess water, you want to transfer to a larger, still leaking boat?
At some point the budget must balance. Right now it is possible to do that. In another year or two, the debt will become IMPOSSIBLE to repay. What then.

I'd prefer a plan now--even a painful plan, if the pain is fairly distributed--over bankruptcy, and total economic meltdown and anarchy sometime in the future.
Look at what happened in Poland when their economy hit the wall---not pretty.

SwampYankee · #34 04-06-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Before the Repubs officially release their budget plan with its $5Trill in cuts over 10 years, post what you think will be the democrat talking point key words?

Draconian, Extreme, and "will kill children" are my guesses.

The sad fact is, even with those extreme cuts, spending will grow by $6 Trill or so over the same period.
Will government ever take the deficit seriously?

Nancy Pelosi:

Quote:

“In one of the bills before us, six million seniors are deprived of meals — homebound seniors are deprived of meals. People ask us to find our common ground, the middle ground. Is middle ground three million seniors not receiving meals? I don’t think so. We’ve got to take this conversation from a debate about numbers and dollar figure and finding middle ground there to the higher ground of national values. I don’t think the American people want any one of those six million people to lose their meals or the children who are being thrown off of Head Start and the rest of it.”

Seniors will starve to death, education will come to a screeching halt and I think I heard that our waters will become instantly polluted as well.

MTI · #35 04-06-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Your solution is simply to raise the debt ceiling?
Rather simplistic, no?

Rather presumptive, yes?

SwampYankee · #36 04-06-2011, 10:50 AM

A serious question for someone who can calculate in trillions and billions since I'm just trying to get my brain around these numbers

.

The GOP's number of $50-65 billion in cuts (I've heard various numbers thrown out and I understand there has been no official plan proposed yet) have been portrayed as "extreme" and "draconian." I've heard a couple interviews on the radio in which that ~$60B cut in the $3.69Trillion budget works out to a reduction of 2.6 pennies/dollar. FWIW the host is a Libertarian and the woman in the clip I believe was a GOP politician.

How did they arrive at $0.026?

$60B=$60,000,000,000
$3.69T=$3,690,000,000,000

To make it simpler for minds like mine by getting rid of 9 zero's:

$60
$3,690

And I come up with $0.016 which is 1.6 pennies.

Am I missing something or am I incorrect in my calculation?

Honus · #37 04-06-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

...Draconian, Extreme, and "will kill children" are my guesses...

I don't think the "will kill children" slogan will get much play, but "draconian," and "extreme" are probably apt. "Delusional" is another word that comes to mind:

Quote:

If Rep. Paul Ryan’s newly unveiled 2012 budget is signed into law, this is what Ryan’s economic forecasters say will happen: The unemployment rate will plunge by 2.5 percentage points. The still-sinking housing market will roar back in a brand new boom. The federal government will collect $100 billion more in income tax revenues than it otherwise would have.

And that’s just in the first year. By 2015, the forecasters say, unemployment will fall to 4 percent. By 2021, it will be a nearly unprecedented 2.8 percent.

The tax and spending roadmap put forth Tuesday morning by Ryan, the Wisconsin Republican who heads the House Budget Committee, is backed by a set of extremely optimistic assumptions about how the budget would stimulate private investment, hiring, and broad economic growth...

http://mobile.nationaljournal.com/budget/ryan-plan-pushes-optimism-to-the-outer-limits-20110405

Paul Ryan is a clown.

Skid Row Joe · #38 04-06-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Nancy Pelosi:

Seniors will starve to death, education will come to a screeching halt and I think I heard that our waters will become instantly polluted as well.

I just don't see that happening.

Were the money that goes to the Dept. of Education, which btw is doing nothing of quantitative value, instead went to our seniors, they could all eat out in fine family restaurants and enjoy that glass of red wine that is so healthful.

I don't believe anything that woman says. The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

MS Fowler · #39 04-06-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I don't think the "will kill children" slogan will get much play, but "draconian," and "extreme" are probably apt. "Delusional" is another word that comes to mind

aul Ryan is a clown.

So once you get past the name-calling, where is the responsible democrat alternative?
They have abdicated leadership at every opportunity. The last election demonstrated how out of touch they are with the people.

davidmash · #40 04-06-2011, 02:39 PM

Or how out of touch with reality the voters are. All they did was trade idiots.

Honus · #41 04-06-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

So once you get past the name-calling, where is the responsible democrat alternative?
They have abdicated leadership at every opportunity. The last election demonstrated how out of touch they are with the people.

I agree that name calling is not productive, but it bugs me that the media treat Ryan as if he has offered a serious proposal.

I'm not sure what Congressional democrats have in mind, but Obama submitted his budget about a month ago. Are you suggesting that his proposed budget is not a responsible alternative?

SwampYankee · #42 04-06-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I'm not sure what Congressional democrats have in mind, but Obama submitted his budget about a month ago. Are you suggesting that his proposed budget is not a responsible alternative?

Both sides are just playing to their constituencies.

Schumer says the Dems want $33 billion. If my math serves me correctly ($33/3690) that works out to $0.009 reduction per $1.00 spent. I think many people hear $33 billion and think, "Wow, they're really tightening their belts." The reality is it's less than a penny per dollar in cuts.

MTI · #43 04-06-2011, 04:07 PM

How about raising taxes?

While I don't disagree with the proposal that individuals or organizations that create jobs or stimulate the economy should be encouraged by a lower rate, the current system does not specifically tie either job creation or economic stimulus with qualifying for the lower rate. If a taxable entity hires Amercian workers and increases industry in the US . . . give them the incentive, but if that entity's profits are from moving operations offshore, downsizing and sitting on profits, then perhaps they won't get a break on taxes. Right now, the tax incentives seem to be all "carrot" and no "stick"

Honus · #44 04-06-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Both sides are just playing to their constituencies...

I wonder about that. Who is Ryan's constituency? He wants to get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Is there much of a constituency for that?

MS Fowler · #45 04-06-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

How about raising taxes?

While I don't disagree with the proposal that individuals or organizations that create jobs or stimulate the economy should be encouraged by a lower rate, the current system does not specifically tie either job creation or economic stimulus with qualifying for the lower rate. If a taxable entity hires Amercian workers and increases industry in the US . . . give them the incentive, but if that entity's profits are from moving operations offshore, downsizing and sitting on profits, then perhaps they won't get a break on taxes. Right now, the tax incentives seem to be all "carrot" and no "stick"

With the economy already in the doldrums, how much of a tax increase can it stand before it collapses? I don't have the answer, just asking.
I am not an economist---but then they haven't done such a great job, either.
As for your proposal, i don't know. I wouldn't reject it out of hand, but I wouldn't endorse it without more study. It is a darn sight more than I hear from the dems, though.