Thanks for the reasoned response.

Actually I just want to explore some ideas.

It's difficult because there is so much baggage in the way.

But a certain segment of OD is belligerent to ideas contrary to their own. From what I can determine some of these folks are pretty smart and accomplished.

I want to see if I can isolate some of the factors that co-exist with this pattern.

There are so many terms and such resistance that I cannot 'operate on a patient' if they are fighting me.

I strongly suspect however that part of the resistance comes down to what I'll call one's psychological 'blind spot.'

As you know we have a blind spot in our vision. Most folks have to be constrained before they will encounter it. In an analogous manner I suspect that the ego or conscious self has certain 'blind spots.' No reason to speculate on why at the moment.

I think the questions I ask and my attempt to explore them in a quasi-scientific manner threatens folks.

Conjecture, I acknowledge but the extreme and in a number of cases vicious responses suggests that there are semi-conscious forces at play.

I'll see if I can find another way to 'crack this nut.'

Be well.

.

Let's move on shall we?

.

Sure and yet marketing folks with much less data find ways to use it to generate millions of dollars.

Data, as you know, can reveal useful information even with 'soft correlations.'

.

I think, after careful consideration, that you are mighty proud of yourself.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Me too.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

This question makes no sense. Your reasoning is flawed.

Do the right and the left argue differently?

If the answer is yes, then they must have reached the conclusion by arguing differently, therefore the answer is no.

If the answer is no, then they must have reached the conclusion by using the same argument, therefore the answer is yes.

Either answer generates a contradiction.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

There goes that dog chasing it's tail again....or, as a prof I know used to call it, "mental masturbation".

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

I'll approach this from a slightly different angle. What you are looking for has merit, but I doubt you'd be able to glean any actual "scientific" information just from this forum alone. I can only speak for myself here but I'm in no way threatened by your attempt and I am not trying to be caustic. I think that what you would find is simply what pushes the buttons of certain members so to speak, and members' individual methods of communication via internet forums rather than a holistic view of dems/repubs and their corresponding debate strategies.

Take me for example, lets just say I've been labeled a liberal dem for arguments sake. if you went back and look at my posts you'd determine (at least based on your responding posts, I would not agree but that's besides the point) that I am unwilling to look at a scientific approach and corresponding data. Now, regardless of whether I agree with that or not, you'd be likely to determine that liberals exhibit similar traits based on your observations. In the very least, 10% of your subjects would exhibit this trait due to the small sample size. Now, in reality its just a trait of tbomachines, who not only has a non-binary political view, but is also not objectively exhibiting the traits but is merely subjected to researcher bias.

However I think it is quite useful to take a look at our members and see the ways in which they argue and/or communicate. I do think that understanding each others' points of view is essential in keeping OD civil. That's why I say you are fine studying this on an anecdotal level but to do so scientifically you'd have to overcome severe methodological challenges. It should also be mentioned that a number of our more rowdy members are on vacation, some permanently.

To your later post, any market research firm that uses less than 10 people as the basis of a multimillion dollar initiative is not going to be in business very long...

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

Science, shat, shine and shinola, I am not following what there is to be proud of here, not that pride is necessarily a good thing anyway. The terms "discuss" and "argue" do not mean the same thing and should not be used interchangeably. If only we could see ourselves the way others see us. Everyone here who confuses the two should ask for forgiveness from everyone who ever called you argumentative or said you were impossible to live with. I hope you do windows better than you do experimental design.

lol!

^^^ (tbomachines)

Thank you very much.

These are the types of discussion I have been trying to have and find so rare here.

First, I agree with everything you say.

I've been trying to start a process, not mandate an outcome.

In the course of these dialogs I have learned a number of things. Such as when I have quoted a source I thought was reliable and someone called me on it I went to do my due diligence. My source wasn't reliable! I'll not rely upon them again, at least without checking.

There is a common notion floating about, 'that the left and right do argue differently.' I'm curious is this so or is virtually everything one encounters a slanted take that is oriented to win arguments and not pursue truth. I find this very, very disheartening.

However, I am not afraid of truth and would much rather embrace it and where it takes me then reinforce my existing believes. Part of this is just my nature but another part is that my life has been completely topsy-turvy (very little due to my conscious choice) for much of the past 10 years. So, outside of my faith, I'm open to virtually any aspect of redefinition that pursuit of truth reveals. So, repeating for clarity, I do not/did not have an outcome that must occur from these questions.

Few specific responses. Obviously a simple L/R choice is highly limited. There are simple tools on the web that ask a few questions and quantify where on stands. Here is an extremely simplistic and limited one - Simple Value Test.

Here's my result -



If the red dot was another half-step to the right I would agree with the results. I don't think this classifies me as deranged, neo-facist, etc as seems to be a common take from some here.

It seemed some members were self-defining as L on the L/R spectra. So I thought they would readily step forward. I did not relish trying to assign a score.

Final response. My comment on marketing people using the data, I meant if they had access to all the threads of everyone, which of course they do, AND it dealt with market/purchasing-decisions. i was saying, and I'm sure you already agree, that loosely correlated data still is useful.

Thanks again for your thorough and thoughtful response.

Except when folks attack Jesus I'm pretty approachable and reasonable actually.

.

who here has "attacked" jesus? how can one "attack" a rather sketchy caricature from 2000 years ago? an idea?

please explain. ( i am arguing from neither "right" nor "left".)

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Nope. You're arguing from straight out of the stinky crack. I mean the middle. My apologies to y'all and all the pygmies in Indonesia.

Maybe someone should initiate a scientific study to determine who thinks that all ideas or open to critical analysis, faith or otherwise.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

90/80.
Yep, I'm a rightwinger, no question.