There's a disconnect between saying the country was calling, when it turns out that it was the call of politicians, diplomats and corporations. It turned out that it was the country's call that eventually ended that war.

Just cries. How old are you?

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Trying to make someone look like a low life because they answered their nations call is quite a "small" thing to do.

When did I do this? I did not.

I have no criticism for anybody who served, only respect, gratitude and a bit of sympathy.

For myself, I graduated in '67, attended college in a five year program, drew a lottery number of 13 when they were taking up to the sixties, IIRC, graduated and became 1A, applied for service in the Reserves (or National guard, not sure which), took the physical for that form of service and failed the physical and was classified 4F (IIRC medially inelgible).

I will not mislead. I was against the Viet Nam war for many reasons, and did not want to go there.

I also was married with a young daughter by the time I took the physical for the reserves.

I am sorry for anybody who had to go there but no regrets for my own actions.

It was a wrong headed war fought for the ego of politicians. A lot of fine folks died or were maimed by it.

I avoided Viet Nam as Bush and Cheney did. Did I "draft dodge"?

I'll let you decide.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

No kidding.

He was exactly right. As far as I'm concerned it took more courage to stand up to an unjust call than to blindly obey it. It doesn't make him any less of a citizen. Perhaps more.


Oprah: Part of your notoriety comes from your willingness to stand up for yourself—like when you decided that no one could make you go to Vietnam. You even said you were willing to face gunfire rather than go into the army or denounce the honorable Elijah Muhammad. Did you mean that?

Muhammad: Did I mean it? I'm not going to come out now and say, "I was just joking!"

Oprah: So you just got your draft notice and said to yourself, "I'm not going"?

Muhammad: I said more than that! I said, "No Vietcong ever called me a ******." Black men would go over there and fight, but when they came home, they couldn't even be served a hamburger.

Oprah: Your brother said that when you came home after winning the Olympic gold in 1960, you were refused service at a restaurant in Louisville.

Muhammad: I walked in and tried to order two hamburgers, and I was told, "We don't serve Negroes." I said, "Good—because I don't eat them either." They said, "You're a smart ******—get out of here!" So I left and drove to the bridge and threw my gold medal in the river. A black man in America can win an Olympic gold medal, but he can't even come home and be served a hamburger.

Oprah: Do you regret throwing your medal in the river?

Muhammad: Now I do!



Read more: Oprah Talks to Muhammad Ali - Oprah.com

__________________
MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

So the German soldiers who invaded Poland or the Japanese who invaded China were doing the honorable thing?

__________________
MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

No you did not draft dodge and niether did either one of them. That was my point. They are not draft dodgers. Complying with the law is not draft dodging.

I only wish that I could have/would have done what you did. I was not ready for college out of high school and that resulted in my being forced into the military. It didn't take much of the Army to realize that there had to be an easier and safer way to make a living, so when I got out I couldn't find a college fast enough.

I have a very close high school friend that went straight to college, ended up with a low lottery number and didn't have to go in the Army. He was an aeronautical engineer for LTV until not long ago. Had a great career. He has told me that he feels like he dodged it and I have assured him that he did the right thing.

The difference is that both of you and Bush and Cheney for that matter, complied with the law as opposed to thumbing your noses at as did Clay. If he wanted to thumb his nose at the law, he should have gone to Canada and been made to stay there.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

So refusing to comply with the law, not serving when called, but THEN staying and enjoying the freedoms that you refused to protect is the RIGHT thing to do?

If he had sincere conviction he would have moved to Canada and staid there.

I will ask you the same question I asked MTI. How old are you?

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

He stayed here to fight for Black America's civil rights....so he could get a hamburger wherever he wanted....and all other people as well.

For him it was more about civil rights than anything else.

His actions were a big part of the civil rights movement, giving folks something to be proud of and to believe their civil rights could be won.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

The problem is that he violated the law to do it. Apparantly the difference between myself and many on this forum is that I am not willing to violate the law. He was a high profile person with special status and was allowed to thumb his nose at the law. Most of us would have been thrown in jail for a long time.

The saddest part of your statement for me is that you say people were proud of him for breaking the law.

This appears to just be something else on which we will have to agree to disagree.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

I understand where you're coming from Larry, actually Kerry expanded on that view not too long ago (I can't find the link). I will point out though, that just because something is a law does not mean that it is right in the minds of constituents. That is how we get laws changed and move forward as a population.

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

I was slightly too young to have been drafted. Had I been old enough I'm sure I would have gotten a college deferment like so many other guys who didn't serve.

But I was old enough to have seen heartbreaking pictures of young American guys lying dead in their blood soaked white tee shirts, freshly killed in Viet Nam in the latest issue of Life magazine. And for what?

So what exactly did you do in Viet Nam?

__________________
MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

"If I say a mosquito can pull a plow. Don't ask how just hitch him up!"

__________________
MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

The difference in myself and many people who post on this forum is that I have respect for the law. The way to change laws is through the process established by our forefathers, not by breaking them.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

The problem is that some laws are unfair and or are twisted to deny basic rights.

As in the US before the civil rights act laws required folks to be able to read and so forth resulting in the denying of most black folks the right to vote. This is not to mention beatings killings and lynchings used to propegate and support unfair laws against black folks.

You cannot change unfair laws legally if you cannot vote.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

That's right. Mohammed Ali is a draft dodger, John Kerry is a coward and Warren Buffet is fiscally incompetent. I heard it all on this forum -

__________________
With best regards

Al