Why Clean Energy Went Bust... - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Air&Road · #61 01-25-2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

Ide say nothing matches the density of old farts brains with a penchant for old polluting energy sources.

Damn those evil 21'st century types for attempting to straighten out humans situation on the planet.

Hmmm... it appears that you are all for cramming something down the throats of unwilling citizens. Are you wearing your jack boots today?

Botnst · #62 01-25-2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Renewable energy is very unlikely to ever power vehicles. Household power, yes. The way we get about and the distances we live from our place of employment was shaped by an easy availability of cheap power. Not the best way to design an infrastructure. Not that I would have seen the stumbling blocks down the road back when.

Yep. In retrospect it was pretty dumb. Worse, we have no designed every city in the country and all farm-to-market transportation around autonomous vehicles. It is going to take the collapse of civilization to change the design of society.

It wasn't too many years ago that we scoffed at Europeans hanging-on to their cities designed for walking and animal traffic. That design forced them to make smaller cars for maneuvering and more rails for heavy traffic. Rail traffic in the USA is fine for freight but our low density (compared to Europe) works against expansion of rails for human use.

panZZer · #63 03-22-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

Yes --but this has to be for a carbureted vehicle --- an efi uses an emulator to fool the computer to think everything is as usual when it switches over to the pane and that costs bucks!

I was incorrect-- the new digital systems are avalible--in the rest of the world for obd1 cars and newer sequential systems for 99 and newer vehicles.
it IS coming to America,, and will be common within 5 yrs.

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Good-a...els&id=5085848

http://www.mintlpg.co.uk/consumer/3/how-sgi-works.php

Dudesky · #64 03-22-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

I was incorrect-- the new digital systems are avalible--in the rest of the world for obd1 cars and newer sequential systems for 99 and newer vehicles.
it IS coming to America,, and will be common within 5 yrs.

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Good-a...els&id=5085848

http://www.mintlpg.co.uk/consumer/3/how-sgi-works.php

Guy, we currently OBDll and CAN something, I forget.

In the OBDl days they used LPG to set the standards.

cmac2012 · #65 03-23-2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yep. In retrospect it was pretty dumb. Worse, we have no designed every city in the country and all farm-to-market transportation around autonomous vehicles. It is going to take the collapse of civilization to change the design of society.

It wasn't too many years ago that we scoffed at Europeans hanging-on to their cities designed for walking and animal traffic. That design forced them to make smaller cars for maneuvering and more rails for heavy traffic. Rail traffic in the USA is fine for freight but our low density (compared to Europe) works against expansion of rails for human use.

Ah, missed this one. Seems like the only place rail travel sorta works is in the densely populated NE. I want to like the idea of high speed rail in CA but I'm worried it will be a huge investment, complete with much right of way grabbing, and ultimately underutilized.

I'm guessing that as petrol goes further and further up in price that our cities will morph into something more on a human scale. My current ladyfriend has a house way up in the Oakland hills. Awesome view but I can't imagine too many people walking the route from downtown Oakland, or even the relatively nearby neighborhood, up to that house.

Botnst · #66 03-23-2012, 07:07 AM

I agree. And I think it is inevitable. And I'm going the opposite direction -- moving to the lowest-density forested area of my state and plan to visit population centers as seldom as possible. Changing my name to Mr Douglass!

WhipperSnapper · #67 03-23-2012, 07:35 AM

Some day somebody will come up with something that will do away with today's energy products. In the meantime we will keep digging for coal and drilling for oil. When that day comes, the coal miners and oil drillers will be out of work. Until that time if we don't dig and drill, we're idiots.

Whip

disley · #68 03-23-2012, 08:05 AM

Iceland has done well using thermal energy.

Quote:

Five major geothermal power plants exist in Iceland, which produce approximately 26.2% (2010)[1] of the nation's energy. In addition, geothermal heating meets the heating and hot water requirements of approximately 87% of all buildings in Iceland. Apart from geothermal energy, 73.8% of the nation’s electricity was generated by hydro power, and 0.1% from fossil fuels.[2]
Consumption of primary geothermal energy in 2004 was 79.7 petajoules (PJ), approximately 53.4% of the total national consumption of primary energy, 149.1 PJ. The corresponding share for hydro power was 17.2%, petroleum was 26.3%, and coal was 3%.[3] Plans are underway to turn Iceland into a 100% fossil-fuel-free nation in the near future.

jplinville · #69 03-23-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disley

Iceland has done well using thermal energy.

That wouldn't work. The population of Iceland is somewhere in the neighborhood of 320k people. That's the size of a large city here in the US. To do that you'd have to re-engineer the entire public works systems as well as how that heat is dispersed evenly.

Add to that the environuts that would halt the program once one tremor is felt due to the drilling.

Just because it works in one place doesn't mean it's the answer for other populations and cultures.

pj67coll · #70 03-23-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Rail traffic in the USA is fine for freight but our low density (compared to Europe) works against expansion of rails for human use.

Not sure I'd agree with that Bot. How is high speed intercity rail any different than commuter air travel in that respect?

- Peter.

Dudesky · #71 03-23-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

What that article barely touches on is the amount of energy used to create the batteries needed for electric cars, much less the waste created.

One interesting paragraph...

Besides the amount of energy used, a lot of toxic wastes are created too. So where is the offset?

Heard today Obama's algae fuel maker is coal fired.....cool.

WhipperSnapper · #72 03-23-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

Besides the amount of energy used, a lot of toxic wastes are created too. So where is the offset?

Heard today Obama's algae fuel maker is coal fired.....cool.

Hot dam keep on burnin that coal.

Whip

spdrun · #73 03-23-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Not sure I'd agree with that Bot. How is high speed intercity rail any different than commuter air travel in that respect?

- Peter.

It's not, and it can be faster since it's a lot easier to build a station on a line than a commercial airport -- meaning that people can get to the station more quickly since one can be built closer to their homes. BTW - cars would still have a place ... for local transportation within non-walkable communities. Trips up to 50-100 miles, that would easily be tolerated by electric cars.

Electric bus lines like the trolleybuses that are used in SF and Boston are also cheap to build and require no batteries.

disley · #74 03-24-2012, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

That wouldn't work. The population of Iceland is somewhere in the neighborhood of 320k people. That's the size of a large city here in the US. To do that you'd have to re-engineer the entire public works systems as well as how that heat is dispersed evenly.

Add to that the environuts that would halt the program once one tremor is felt due to the drilling.

Just because it works in one place doesn't mean it's the answer for other populations and cultures.

I wasn't suggesting doing it in the USA.
If conditions allow for it then non polluting energy works.
Iceland also causes enough pollution from volcanic eruptions to negate their green image.

cmac2012 · #75 03-24-2012, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I agree. And I think it is inevitable. And I'm going the opposite direction -- moving to the lowest-density forested area of my state and plan to visit population centers as seldom as possible. Changing my name to Mr Douglass!

I'm all fir it.

It sounds appealing but flies in the ointment present themselves soon enough. I've had friends up in Ea. WA doing it up pretty well for a long time. It's good and not so good IME. The land is sparse so most of the people live long distances apart, long as in 5 - 10 - 30 miles. W/o the auto it would be the sort of lonely existance of the American planes that the advent of the auto transformed.