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  #46  
Old 07-13-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
When he has information that could save hundreds of soldiers lives, his life is worth whatever he can say before he gets his nuts shot off (which is where Col West aimed, not his head).

Put it this way, if a man had information that could save your son's life, which is in immanent danger, but refused to give it up what would you do?
Somebody screwed up the official report:

Investigation further established probable cause to believe LTC committed the offense of Aggravated Assault when LTC XXXXXX.placed the head of Mr XXXXXX into a clearing barrel, while interogating him, and fired his 9M pistol near Mr xxxxx 's head.

LTC proceeded to remove his weapon from his holster and placed it about one foot away from Mr. xxxx's head. When LTC fire dthe weapon, Mr. XXX became hysterical and thoght he was going to be killed by LTC


http://www.aclu.org/files/projects/foiasearch/pdf/DODDOACID000105.pdf

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  #47  
Old 07-13-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by panZZer View Post
Do you have any proof of that?
Yes. After the incident he surrendered his sidearm to his XO and placed himself under arrest, then resumed command. The Army investigated it and found he had violated the UCMJ (I don't recall which article(s)) and retired him with an official reprimand.

Soon after retirement he ran for Congress and was elected. It's Google-able. The Army's findings are public record (somewhere).
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  #48  
Old 07-13-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
Somebody screwed up the official report:

Investigation further established probable cause to believe LTC committed the offense of Aggravated Assault when LTC XXXXXX.placed the head of Mr XXXXXX into a clearing barrel, while interogating him, and fired his 9M pistol near Mr xxxxx 's head.

LTC proceeded to remove his weapon from his holster and placed it about one foot away from Mr. xxxx's head. When LTC fire dthe weapon, Mr. XXX became hysterical and thoght he was going to be killed by LTC


http://www.aclu.org/files/projects/foiasearch/pdf/DODDOACID000105.pdf
Beg pardon. My mistake.
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  #49  
Old 07-13-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
How is a captured soldier a threat that is worthy of an execution without trial?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were not aware of the details surrounding Colonel Wests escapade that I referred to:

An captured enemy combatant had information that if known by the Colonel would save lives of his men. He shot a round over the top of the combatants head and he started singing like a Canary, giving the Colonel the information needed to save lives of his men.

There was NO execution without a trial. There was no harm to the combatant. The Colonel protected his men as every good officer or NCO should do.

The whole incident and the way it was handled by today's US military emphasizes that on the battlefield, lives are at stake. There's no such thing as a kind and gentle war. Of course, with the wimpy, touchy feely politicians establishing such wimpy rules of engagement, more lives are lost than would be if people like Colonel West were running things.

I'm convinced that Colonel West was never General West because he did not kiss ass and play the politics necessary to rise in the ranks. He served the army much better doing what he did and I think he knew that. If we had a bunch of Colonel Wests as Generals, and the wimpy politicians would turn over the framing of the rules of engagement to them, we would have been out of the Middle East five years ago with fewer American lives lost.

As a matter of comparison, Colonel Hackworth, during the Vietnam war, was in a VERY similar situation with two VC captured that had information necessary for the saving of American lives. Colonel Hackworth had his Huey pilot take them up to several thousand feet. He told the first one to answer his question and the VC refused to do so. He without hesitation shoved him out the door of the Huey. Without having to repeat the question, the second VC immediately gave the Colonel information saved many of his men.

Colonel Hackworth got by with it, but for much less violence Colonel West did not. These were both men that knew how to fight wars.
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Last edited by Air&Road; 07-13-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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  #50  
Old 07-13-2012, 08:07 PM
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VP choice has almost no impact on how people vote. People vote for ( or against) the President; rarely the VP.
Having said that she is not a light weight, but it is hard to picture her in the typical Veep role--that of attack dog. She would never get flustered, and probably never say anything unguarded. She would always present herself as capable.
Many of her views are at variance with Romney's, and with the grass roots, too.
All in all, IMO, not the best pick for VP. Not a liability, but not much of an asset either.
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  #51  
Old 07-13-2012, 08:10 PM
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people claim to have voted against Palin, that they were wavering about McCain until her selection.
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  #52  
Old 07-13-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
I'm glad you understand about an officer protecting his men. Wish we could find that kind of principle from our current Commander in Chief.

I still can't find the word manhood in that post.
WAY more of a man
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  #53  
Old 07-13-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
When he has information that could save hundreds of soldiers lives, his life is worth whatever he can say before he gets his nuts shot off (which is where Col West aimed, not his head).

Put it this way, if a man had information that could save your son's life, which is in immanent danger, but refused to give it up what would you do?
OH yeah, you were a big fan of 24 right?

What more proof is needed?
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  #54  
Old 07-13-2012, 08:46 PM
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I also watch Masterpiece Theatre. I'm sure that tells you something about my politics, too. Please explain. Thanks.
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  #55  
Old 07-13-2012, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I also watch Masterpiece Theatre. I'm sure that tells you something about my politics, too. Please explain. Thanks.
When he has information that could save hundreds of soldiers lives, his life is worth whatever he can say before he gets his nuts shot off

Doesn't this pretty much sum up the plot of 24? Every week someone is tortured or whatever in order to save the world?

My wife really liked it but I did not so I confess I only saw bits and pieces here and there and decided it was all pretty much an apology for and support for the Bush administrations shady methods for gathering intel.
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  #56  
Old 07-13-2012, 11:46 PM
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That's not a bad synopsis. The series pushed hard on what the limits of moral behavior are. I like books, movies and TV shows that push the limits of moral behavior. I don't mean appetitive limits. That's prurience, a shallow substitute.

It asks a question theologians and philosophers have puzzled over since written history: What serves the greater good?

So yeah, I liked the show.

Now about Masterpiece Theatre, how would you reconcile my appreciation of both? What is it about MT that would appeal to that envelope pushing predilection?

Or NOVA, of which I am a huge fan?

Most people have more dimensions than the observer can or wants to see.
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  #57  
Old 07-14-2012, 05:49 AM
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Well I like MT and Nova as well, but of course it is the differences in taste that we notice.
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  #58  
Old 07-14-2012, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
people claim to have voted against Palin, that they were wavering about McCain until her selection.
Perhaps. But McCain was a weak candidate, himself.
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  #59  
Old 07-14-2012, 08:48 AM
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I thought so. That maverick crap was a delusion. He was politically brave in the shallow end of the pool.
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  #60  
Old 07-14-2012, 10:37 AM
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... she is not a light weight ...
I don't know whether she is a lightweight, but I am also not aware of her ever being correct about anything of significance. Her academic focus was on the Soviet Union and she was completely wrong about them. She was equally clueless in her role as Secretary of State. Probably her most comical performance in that role was when she praised the leaders of the coup who briefly overthrew Hugo Chavez in 2002. When the coup quickly fell apart, she had to acknowledge that she had supported the military overthrow of a democratically-elected leader. World events repeatedly caught her by surprise throughout W's two terms. She would be a disastrous candidate, IMHO. Her combination of cluelessness and arrogance wouldn't hold up over the long campaign. IMHO
Quote:
...She would never get flustered, and probably never say anything unguarded...
She seemed a bit flustered when testifying before the 9/11 Commission. And then there's the time she referred to W as her husband. That was awkward.

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