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-   -   Democratic convention (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=324531)

dynalow 09-07-2012 10:21 AM
96,000 jobs in August? Are you $h*ting me? :rolleyes::eek::eek::eek:

Economy adds 96K jobs, unemployment rate falls to 8.1 percent - The Hill's On The Money

The economy added 96,000 jobs in August, a paltry figure that threatens to undermine President Obama’s case for a second term as he tries to carry forward the momentum from the Democratic National Convention.

The unemployment rate fell to 8.1 percent from 8.3 percent, according to the Bureau for Labor Statistics, but only because more people gave up on looking for work.



Civilian participation fell to 63.5% ......lowest in decades.Current Population Survey (CPS)

Forward.:cool:

Honus 09-07-2012 10:35 AM
Some have commented that Obama's speech was less than overwhelming in its rhetoric, which is I think is true. I wonder if he toned it down because he already had this stinky jobs report in hand before he went on stage.

MTI 09-07-2012 10:35 AM
How many jobs were created in September 2008? Let's check:

The U.S. economy lost 159,000 jobs last month, the steepest monthly drop since March 2003, the Labor Department reported today. The employment report, which will be the last before Americans head to the voting booth next month, comes on the heels of Wall Street's financial crisis and amid congressional action on a $700 billion investment program designed to boost credit availability in the financial markets.

The September job losses sailed above economists' median forecast of 105,000, as surveyed by Bloomberg. The unemployment rate remained steady at 6.1 percent, which met economists' projections.

Honus 09-07-2012 10:41 AM
There is no question in my mind that we would be far worse off without Obama's leadership on the economy. The GOP bears much more of the blame than does Obama. The sad thing about this steady-but-anemic recovery is that we are going to have an entire lost generation coming of age in a time with few opportunities.

MS Fowler 09-07-2012 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 732002 (Post 3007283)
The threat of depression seems much less likely now than 4yrs ago.

The debt is a decades old problem, Reagan and BushII made their contributions with tax cuts and spending. Romney offers more of the same...............

The only solution to the deficit is increased revenue by taxing those who can afford it more,(make taxes more progressive) and tough choices on spending cuts.
Sorry, but I must strongly disagree with your last statement regarding the ONLY way....
Liberals typically think in terms like that--we need to take a larger part of the pie to pay the taxes. That is very limited and harmful thinking.

It is also possible to grow the size of the pie--putting more citizens back to work, and, not incidentally paying more taxes. Moving people from the welfare rolls to the tax rolls would dramatically increase tax revenue with raising the rate that anyone pays.

As for spending cuts---dems demagogue every proposed reduction in anticipated spending increases as draconian cuts that will kill the old, and the ill. They must stop sort of harmful talk, and be realistic. Until they do, there will be no improvement in the situation---unless they are reduced to the point where they don't have enough members in the Congress to affect anything, and we have one party Repub rule. Not a prospect I look forward to. One party rule is always a disaster. I'd love for the dems to get back to speaking for the little man--not Big Labor bosses, nor Big Corporations.

Air&Road 09-07-2012 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 3007328)
There is no question in my mind that we would be far worse off without Obama's leadership on the economy. The GOP bears much more of the blame than does Obama. The sad thing about this steady-but-anemic recovery is that we are going to have an entire lost generation coming of age in a time with few opportunities.

Pulease.............!

He promised to cut the deficit in half when he knew FULL WELL what the situation was. If his policies would have worked, we would be looking at a lower deficit today. He PROMISED to cut the deficit in half and instead it has INCREASED.

Anyone who believes that four years is not enough of his policies probably believes in Santa Claus and the Tooth Ferry.

Give me a break!

MTI 09-07-2012 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3007337)
Pulease.............!

He promised to cut the deficit in half when he knew FULL WELL what the situation was. If his policies would have worked, we would be looking at a lower deficit today. He PROMISED to cut the deficit in half and instead it has INCREASED.

Anyone who believes that four years is not enough of his policies probably believes in Santa Claus and the Tooth Ferry.

Give me a break!
Mitt hasn't promised a thing, eh? 12 million jobs?

MTI 09-07-2012 11:01 AM
Fact Checking the DNC Convention's Final Night

In a rousing double-header, Democratic delegates heard Barack Obama and Joe Biden both accept renomination on their convention's final night. And we heard some facts being spun.

Honus 09-07-2012 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3007337)
...He promised to cut the deficit in half when he knew FULL WELL what the situation was. ...
Not true. The economy was much worse than people realized. It got that way because we enacted the economic policies that Romney/Ryan are proposing now.

?Great Recession? even deeper than thought - MarketWatch

Honus 09-07-2012 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI (Post 3007346)
Fact Checking the DNC Convention's Final Night

In a rousing double-header, Democratic delegates heard Barack Obama and Joe Biden both accept renomination on their convention's final night. And we heard some facts being spun.
I see that at least one of the authors is affiliated with factcheck.org - next to zero credibility, IMHO.

Dudesky 09-07-2012 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 3007351)
Not true. The economy was much worse than people realized. It got that way because we enacted the economic policies that Romney/Ryan are proposing now.

?Great Recession? even deeper than thought - MarketWatch

BS. What of the community reinvestment act and all that pushed loans to people who never should have gotten them collapsing the market?
Lot of blame to go around on both sides here.
Dem's pushed the envelope through fannie and freddie.

Air&Road 09-07-2012 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 3007351)
Not true. The economy was much worse than people realized. It got that way because we enacted the economic policies that Romney/Ryan are proposing now.

?Great Recession? even deeper than thought - MarketWatch


Good bull**** ALWAYS ends up as good SPIN.

Dudesky 09-07-2012 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 732002 (Post 3007283)
The threat of depression seems much less likely now than 4yrs ago.

The debt is a decades old problem, Reagan and BushII made their contributions with tax cuts and spending. Romney offers more of the same...............

The only solution to the deficit is increased revenue by taxing those who can afford it more,(make taxes more progressive) and tough choices on spending cuts.
Why then did Obama beg EU to not let Greece out of the union until after the election? Huh??
How's Spain this past couple weeks?:eek:
It's about to hit the fan there and the wave will be on our shores soon.

elchivito 09-07-2012 11:37 AM
With the global economic crisis in mind, in which other country would you feel your prospects are better?

link 09-07-2012 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky (Post 3007363)
Why then did Obama beg EU to not let Greece out of the union until after the election? Huh??
How's Spain this past couple weeks?:eek:
It's about to hit the fan there and the wave will be on our shores soon.
What fanciful and romantic notions you have :rolleyes:

Honus 09-07-2012 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky (Post 3007360)
...Lot of blame to go around on both sides here....
True.
Quote:
Dem's pushed the envelope through fannie and freddie.
Also some truth to that, but it was a miniscule part of the problem.

Air&Road 09-07-2012 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 3007383)
True.Also some truth to that, but it was a miniscule part of the problem.

Fannie and Freddie were a MINISCULE part of the problem?:confused: That is the biggest single reason for the fall of '08, toxic assets.

Honus 09-07-2012 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3007388)
Fannie and Freddie were a MINISCULE part of the problem?:confused: That is the biggest single reason for the fall of '08, toxic assets.
I'm not even going to spend the milliseconds it would take google to prove you wrong on that. If you've got a link, I'm happy to ready it.

raymr 09-07-2012 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3007388)
Fannie and Freddie were a MINISCULE part of the problem?:confused: That is the biggest single reason for the fall of '08, toxic assets.
Compounded by the knowing re-bundling and sales of bad debts globally, CDSs, property appraisers using flawed methods, the list goes on and on.

Dudesky 09-07-2012 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by link (Post 3007377)
What fanciful and romantic notions you have :rolleyes:
Think so? :D

Quote:
The Obama administration will pressure European governments not to let Greece fall out of the eurozone before November's Presidential elections, British Government sources have suggested.
Representatives from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission are due to arrive in Athens next month to assess Greece's reform efforts.


They are urging eurozone Governments to hold off from taking any drastic action before then – fearing that the resulting market destabilisation could damage President Obama's re-election prospects. European leaders are thought to be sympathetic to the lobbying fearing that, under pressure from his party lin Congress, Mitt Romney would be a more isolationist president than Mr Obama.
Obama asks eurozone to keep Greece in until after election day - Europe - World - The Independent

Air&Road 09-07-2012 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 3007395)
I'm not even going to spend the milliseconds it would take google to prove you wrong on that. If you've got a link, I'm happy to ready it.

Since you didn't have the 30 seconds and I did, here's your link. It was the one at the very top when I did a google search.

I guess it would have been too tough for you to find on your own, so I'm glad to help.

Toxic Assets - How Toxic Assets Brought Down the Economy - Mortgage-Backed Securities

Cheers

Dudesky 09-07-2012 01:28 PM
Obama going to get a negative bounce?

Sounds like it from left MSM.......:eek:

MTI 09-07-2012 01:35 PM
MSM seems to be saying neither candidate got a convention "bounce."

MTUpower 09-07-2012 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Fan (Post 3007091)
Harry Truman/Estes Kefauver - 1952 primary. Kefauver beat Truman in the New Hampshire primary, causing Truman to see the writing on the wall and cease actively seeking the nomination. Kefauver was bested by Adlai Stevenson in the primaries, who subsequently saw DDE eat his lunch in the general election.
Or Carter/Kennedy. The idea here is that the post of having a sitting president who wishes to run will not be opposed by his own party without disaster. DM suggested the republicans were not so smart to renominate Bush in the first post of this subdiscussion. It would have been idiotic to NOT renominate Bush(no matter how bad he was)- when that happens the president loses and so does the party.

pj67coll 09-07-2012 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 3007328)
There is no question in my mind that we would be far worse off without Obama's leadership on the economy.
What leadership? Bailing out banks to sit on our funds while home owners are tossed into the streets? Bush was the idiot who coined the "too big to fail" moniker as I recall, but Obama swallowed it hook line and sinker. Now it's possible that if McCain had been elected things could have gotten worse, but as you can't prove a negative and I see nothing that indicates Obama has a clue how to "fix" the economy I really don't see how you can make that statement.

Quote:
The sad thing about this steady-but-anemic recovery is that we are going to have an entire lost generation coming of age in a time with few opportunities.
With that I agree but the reason is far bigger than either Bush or Obama. Americans still havent grasped the changed nature of the world or their place in it. Neither candidate shows that they have any comprehension of this either. I will be watching the debates closely because I really hope to see some substance from one of them that would indicate they have a clue because so far all I've heard from either of them (and their campaigns) is drivvle.

- Peter.

MTI 09-07-2012 02:46 PM
Peter, what's your understanding of the effect of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, passed in Febuary 2009? Particularly the effect on job losses at that period and other effects?

panZZer 09-07-2012 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt (Post 3006940)
Get real, and off your high horse, or unicorn.

My "duty" is for me to decide, not for you to arrogantly call me out on. Franky, this isn't your business to make these kind of personal comments about.

I was simply sharing an example, don't lecture me about what I should or shouldn't do or say. Then you have the cojones to compare my example as being akin to me ignoring a child molestor? A little over the top, don't you think?
Theres a killer on the road

His brain is squirmin like a toad

If you give this man a ride -he'll spew cassandra propaganda

The killer will be easy to spot, as you are crusin 6 out onto the hook of cape cod from dennis he will be walkin up from the beach.
the killer will be wearin a stupid looking old fishing cap ( the kind with a bill that sticks out almost a foot).
the killer has a gap tooth situation big enough to play-toss the herring thru.................

barry123400 09-07-2012 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3006679)
So.... from this it sounds as if your solution is to stay with the guy who has run up debt at the fastest rate, has fewer people working than when he started and who failed on his promise to cut the deficit in half and increased it instead?
Voters have very short memories. Charisma or any indication of it by a leader goes much further in my opinion than facts. On that basis alone I think probably four more years is possible.

MTI 09-07-2012 04:21 PM
While the economy is the biggest issue in the election, does it warrant ignoring the other issues and the respective candidate's divergent positions on them?

Dudesky 09-07-2012 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI (Post 3007622)
While the economy is the biggest issue in the election, does it warrant ignoring the other issues and the respective candidate's divergent positions on them?
You mean Bain and tax returns?

MTI 09-07-2012 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky (Post 3007624)
You mean Bain and tax returns?
Or "Dogs, Rooftop Luggage or Tasty Snack?"

Palangi 09-07-2012 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI (Post 3007626)
Or "Dogs, Rooftop Luggage or Tasty Snack?"
Hitler finds out about Seamus....... :D

Hitler FInds Out Romney Strapped His Dog to the Car Roof - YouTube

MS Fowler 09-07-2012 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI (Post 3007626)
Or "Dogs, Rooftop Luggage or Tasty Snack?"
Now there is a major issue.

pj67coll 09-07-2012 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI (Post 3007560)
Peter, what's your understanding of the effect of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, passed in Febuary 2009? Particularly the effect on job losses at that period and other effects?
Doesn't seem to have had much effect especially for the billions spent. It might have givnen some people jobs who would otherwise be on the streets, but does that really offset the millions who are still out of work, or have no meaninfull work? Not in my opinion. The malady that effects the country continues and nobody seems to understand it in it's totality.

- Peter.

MTI 09-07-2012 07:56 PM
Peter, it's my recollection that leading up to Febuary 2009, the US lost over 800.000 jobs. The first quarter after the stimulus was passed over unanimous GOP objection, the unemployment rate saw the largest increase in 30 years and added 2-4% in GDP. Many critics say that the real problem with the stimulus is that it was too small.

MS Fowler 09-07-2012 09:23 PM
Many critics say many things. If you keep looking you will always find a critic or an "expert" who agrees with you.

732002 09-08-2012 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3007312)
Yes, we've had a debt for decades, but NEVER this extremely high. We are near 100% of GDP. This is the point at which Greece started seeing problems. Between Bush and Obama, the debt is now about $10T higher than before they started laying out the credit card and is SCARY high!

Expecting to take care of the debt by raising taxes indicates that you have not looked at the numbers and done the math. If you took 100% of the money that the top earners make, it would only be about $250Billion which would not make sizable dent in the deficit OR the debt.

In addition raising taxes on that segment would DISCOURAGE the investment needed to get the economy producing again. The economy producing IS the only way to even have a chance to dig out of debt. The tax revenue is a percentage of the money earned. If more money is earned, then the government is cutting their share from a bigger pie.

Big government is NOT the answer. Big government is the quickest path to economic destruction.

The sad thing is that in 2008 Obama SLAMMED GW for laying out the credit card and running up $4T in debt that our Grand kids would have to repay. NOW instead of running up $4T in 8 years, Obama has run up somewhere around $6T in only four. Another four years at this rate and economic collapse is all but guaranteed.
Your math is vague, define "top earners" 250B per year? I never said only revenue increases. I think BO budget suggestion was 2.5:1 spending cuts:increased revenue.

It's always the same delusions, cut taxes,cut spending,small government and the economy will magically take off and jobs return.........
Cut military spending and medicare reimbursements 25%, the economy will slow and unemployment will rise.
Hospitals will have layoffs nationwide, towns with military bases will be in depressed economies.........

t walgamuth 09-08-2012 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 732002 (Post 3007853)
Your math is vague, define "top earners" 250B per year? I never said only revenue increases. I think BO budget suggestion was 2.5:1 spending cuts:increased revenue.

It's always the same delusions, cut taxes,cut spending,small government and the economy will magically take off and jobs return.........
Cut military spending and medicare reimbursements 25%, the economy will slow and unemployment will rise.
Hospitals will have layoffs nationwide, towns with military bases will be in depressed economies.........
This is so true. At present the private sector jobs are rising but the government is shedding jobs faster than at any time in memory. The government job losses are dampening the overall economy for sure.


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