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Dudesky · #16 09-27-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

You've never defined the "MSM", so I'll have to conclude it's any news source you don't agree with.

What's the difference?
You're to blind to realize most carry water for your hero.

JB3 · #17 09-27-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

You've never defined the "MSM", so I'll have to conclude it's any news source you don't agree with.

im pretty sure you are also on ignore with Larry. Hard to tell, I know ive been since I called him out for blatantly lying, and he was insulted that he was caught.

I guess internet life is simpler for him not seeing those he disagrees with.

However, having said that, The only belief that Ben Stein does not currently hold that would put him way over on the right side is the belief that Christ was not the Messiah.

That pretty much puts him out of the running for RWNJ, I personally see him as a religious and social conservative.

JB3 · #18 09-27-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

No chance Islamists would penetrate our government in the same fashion the Communists did in the 50's is there?

did they?

you don't see any parallel between the McCarthy led witch hunt for communists and what could be a witch hunt against Muslims?

MTI · #19 09-27-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

im pretty sure you are also on ignore with Larry.

I've been loving it, but he has a habit of peeking.

Dudesky · #20 09-27-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

did they?

you don't see any parallel between the McCarthy led witch hunt for communists and what could be a witch hunt against Muslims?

McCarthy was right.

Quote:

The Muslim Brotherhood "Project"

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent and Merciful S/5/100 report 1/12/1982 [December 1, 1982] Towards a worldwide strategy for Islamic policy(Points of Departure, Elements, Procedures and Missions)

This report presents a global vision of a worldwide strategy for Islamic policy [or "political Islam"]. Local Islamic policies will be drawn up in the different regions inaccordance with its guidelines. It acts, first of all, to define the points of departure of that policy, then to set up the components and the most important procedures linked to each point of departure; finally we suggest several missions, by way of example only,may Allah protect us.The following are the principal points of departure of this policy

oint of Departure 1: To know the terrain and adopt a scientific methodology for its planning and execution.Point of Departure 2: To demonstrate proof of the serious nature of the work.Point of Departure 3: To reconcile international engagement with flexibility ata local level.Point of Departure 4: To reconcile political engagement and the necessity of avoiding isolation on one hand, with permanent education and institutional action on the other.Point of Departure 5: To be used to establish an Islamic State; parallel, progressive efforts targeted at controlling the local centers of power through institutional action.Point of Departure 6: To work with loyalty alongside Islamic groups and institutions in multiple areas to agree on common ground, in order to "cooperate on the points of agreement and set aside the points of disagreement".Point of Departure 7: To accept the principle of temporary cooperation between Islamic movements and nationalist movements in the broad sphere and on common ground such as the struggle against colonialism, preaching and the Jewish

state, without however having to form alliances. This will require, on the other hand,limited contacts between certain leaders, on a case by case basis, as long as these contacts do not violate the [
shari’a
] law. Nevertheless, one must not give them allegiance or take them into confidence, bearing in mind that the Islamic movement must be the origin of the initiatives and orientations taken.Point of Departure 8: To master the art of the possible on a temporary basis without abusing the basic principles, bearing in mind that Allah's teachings always apply. One must order the suitable and forbid that which is not, always providing a documented opinion. But we should not look for confrontation with our adversaries,at the local or the global scale, which would be disproportionate and could lead to attacks against the
dawa
or its disciples.Point of Departure 9: To construct a permanent force of the Islamic
dawa
and support movements engaged in jihad across the Muslim world, to varying degrees and insofar as possible.Point of Departure 10: To use diverse and varied surveillance systems, in several places, to gather information and adopt a single effective warning system serving the worldwide Islamic movement. In fact, surveillance, policy decisions and effective communications complement each other.Point of Departure 11: To adopt the Palestinian cause as part of a worldwide Islamic plan, with the policy plan and by means of
jihad
, since it acts as the keystone of the renaissance of the Arab world today.Point of Departure 12: To know how to turn to self-criticism and permanent evaluation of worldwide Islamic policy and its objectives, of its content and its procedures, in order to improve it. This is a duty and a necessity according to the precepts of
shari’a.

THE FIRST POINT OF DEPARTURE:Know the terrain and adopt a scientific methodology for [The Project's] planning and execution.a- Elements:Know the influential factors in the world, whether they act as Islamic forces,adverse forces, or neutral forces.Use the necessary scientific and technical means for planning, organization,execution and follow-up. b- Procedures:Create observation centers in order to gather and store information for all useful purposes, if need be relying on modern technological methods.Create centers of study and research and produce studies on the political dimension of the Islamic movement.
c- Suggested missions

raw up a map of [religious and ideological] doctrines in the world to have a global vision from 100 years ago to our era, and analyze the current situation in light of that configuration, taking account of changes both happening and predicted.Draw up a map of doctrines of the Muslim world.Draw up a map of Islamic movements in the Muslim world.Carry out successive political and scientific studies in varying Islamic areas,those which apply more particularly to current events.Carry out a scientific study which addresses the history of contemporary Islamic movements, and use it.

Quote:

THE SECOND POINT OF DEPARTURE
To demonstrate proof of the serious nature of the work.
a- Elements:
Clarity of the principal objectives of the
dawa
in the eyes of all, as well as clarity of the temporary objectives, necessitates exploitation, channeling and orientation of the energies.Devote sufficient effort to the service of the workers [for Allah] and coordinate their efforts to the sole and same objective.Devote sufficient time.Spend money to the extent possible.
b-Procedures:
Exploit all the energies of the workers to the service of the
dawa
, each at his level (the criterion of efficiency, given that each must be devoted to the task to which he's assigned).Mobilize the greatest possible number of supporters and officials.Collect money efficiently, control expenses and invest in the general interest.
c- Suggested missions:
Carry out a survey of workers (appropriate men and appropriate location)Establish schedules with the hours of workers and specialists and use their efforts with good judgment and on time (appropriate effort at the right time).An engagement with economic institutions adequate to support the cause financially.

Quote:

THE THIRD POINT OF DEPARTURE
Reconcile international engagement with flexibility at the local level.
a- Elements:
To define the guidelines that everyone [worldwide] must follow.To leave a margin that provides sufficient flexibility at the local level for the issues that do not conflict with the general lines of the global Islamic policy.
b- Procedures:
The Movement, at a global level, will define the Islamic domain and issues in a general way which will require the engagement of all according to previously defined priorities.The local leadership will define local issues that come within their prerogative,according to the principle of flexibility and according to previously defined priorities.
c- Suggested Missions
Worldwide Islamic engagement for a total liberation of Palestine and the creation of an Islamic state is the mission which falls to the global leadership.To establish a dialogue at a local level with those who work for the cause according to the global political lines of the Movement. It is up to the local leadership to define the shape of that dialogue.

Quote:

THE FOURTH POINT OF DEPARTURE
To reconcile political engagement with the necessity of avoiding isolation, on the one hand, with permanent education and institutional work on the other.
a- Elements
Liberty to function politically in each country according to local circumstances, without however participating in a process which makes adecision which would be contrary to the texts of
Shari’a
.To invite everyone to take part in parliament, municipal councils, labor unions and other institutions of which the membership is chosen by the people in the interest of Islam and of Muslims.To continue to educate individuals and generations and to guarantee the training of specialists in various areas according to a previously designed plan.To construct social, economic, scientific and health institutions and penetrate the domain of the social services, in order to be in contact with the people and to serve them by means of Islamic institutions.
b- Procedures
To study the varied political environments and the probabilities of success in each country.To plan specialized study missions which will concentrate on useful are as such as communications, the history of Islam, etc.To conduct feasibility studies concerning various institutions and create them according to priorities established in each country.
c-Suggested Missions
To conduct studies relating to the experiences of political Islam and to draw lessons from them.To give an Islamic policy perspective on the pressing questions of the day.To keep questions of local importance such as issues concerning workers,unions, etc. within an Islamic framework.To create a certain number of economic, social, health care and educational institutions, using available means, to serve the people within an Islamic framework.

Quote:

THE FIFTH POINT OF DEPARTURE
To dedicate ourselves to the establishment of an Islamic state, in parallel with gradual efforts aimed at gaining control of local power centers through institutional action.
a- Elements
To channel thought, education and action in order to establish an Islamic power [government] on the earth.To influence centers of power both local and worldwide to the service of Islam.
b- Procedures
To prepare a scientific study on the possibility of establishing the reign of God throughout the world according to established priorities.To study the centers of power, both local and worldwide, and the possibilities of placing them under influence.To conduct a modern study on the concept of support for the
dawa
and Islamic law, and more particularly on the men of influence in the State and the country.
c- Suggested Mission
To draw up an Islamic Constitution in light of efforts deployed up to now.To draw up Islamic laws, civil laws, etc.
To work within various influential institutions and use them in the service of Islam.To use the work of economic, social, and other specialized Islamic institutions.

Quote:

THE SIXTH POINT OF DEPARTURE
To loyally work alongside Islamic groups and institutions in various areas and in agreement on a common ground in order to "cooperate on points of agreement and put aside points of disagreement".
a- Elements
To coordinate the Islamic work in a single direction as will permit the laying of the foundations of the growth of Muslim society and dedication to the power of God on Earth.For each to work according to his capacities in his chosen field and to master it, with loyalty and coordination of effort.
b- Procedures
To study the true nature of Islamic movements, to evaluate their experiences and draw up plans to initiate collaboration among them.To avoid creating new Islamic movements in a country which already has one;there will be but one movement, serious and complete.
c- Suggested missions
To coordinate the efforts of all those working for Islam, in each country, and to establish good contact with them, whether they work in individuals or in groups.To reduce the differences that exists between workers for Islam and to resolve their conflicts according to
shari’a.

Quote:

THE SEVENTH POINT OF DEPARTURE
To accept the principle of temporary cooperation between Islamic movements and nationalist movements in the broad sphere and on common ground such as the struggle against colonialism, preaching and the Jewish state, without however having to form alliances. This will require, on the other hand, limited contacts between certain leaders, on a case by case basis, as long as these contacts do not violate the[
shari’a
] law. Nevertheless, one must not give them allegiance or take them into confidence, bearing in mind that the Islamic movement must be the origin of the initiatives and orientations taken.
a-Elements:
To combine all efforts against the supreme forces of evil in accordance with the principle that one must “battle one evil with a lesser evil”.

To limit the collaboration to the leadership or to a limited number of individuals in order to maximize the benefit and minimize the possible drawbacks.To work from perspective of the objectives previously defined for the
dawa
.
b-Procedures:
To make a study to evaluate the areas with the object of mutual assistance between Islamic and other movements and draw lessons from it.To study the areas which allow cooperation, and define the boundaries.To study the philosophy and plans of other movements.
c- Suggested Missions:
Each country should study the possibility, in the future, of strengthening internal collaboration

Txjake · #21 09-27-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

did they?

you don't see any parallel between the McCarthy led witch hunt for communists and what could be a witch hunt against Muslims?

Tailgunner Joe was right.......

JB3 · #22 09-27-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

McCarthy was right.

In what way?

McCarthyism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"During the McCarthy era, thousands of Americans were accused of being Communists or communist sympathizers and became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private-industry panels, committees and agencies. The primary targets of such suspicions were government employees, those in the entertainment industry, educators and union activists. Suspicions were often given credence despite inconclusive or questionable evidence, and the level of threat posed by a person's real or supposed leftist associations or beliefs was often greatly exaggerated. Many people suffered loss of employment and/or destruction of their careers; some even suffered imprisonment. Most of these punishments came about through trial verdicts later overturned,[1] laws that would be declared unconstitutional,[2] dismissals for reasons later declared illegal[3] or actionable,[4] or extra-legal procedures that would come into general disrepute."

JB3 · #23 09-27-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

I've been loving it, but he has a habit of peeking.

I think it should be a forum rule that if one posts a certain number of political threads per week, one cannot place anyone on ignore.

It annoys me how cowardly and childlike that behavior is. He should be ashamed of himself, especially if he is close to the man he repeatedly claims he is.

Someone who is honest and has integrity wouldn't spend a large part of their day posting unsupported nonsense and running off and hiding. Those are not the actions of a courageous individual. One who would stand up for his beliefs and discuss them with others.

Txjake · #24 09-27-2012, 11:54 AM

"Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in
Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts — FBI recordings of Soviet
embassy communications between 1944-48 — the record is showing that
McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every
case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing
atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories
in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network"

Most-hated senator was right

Txjake · #25 09-27-2012, 11:57 AM

"From 1943 until 1980, unbeknownst to virtually everyone, the National Security Agency intercepted every Soviet message going from or to the United States. It was not until 1994 that their existence was even acknowledged, and 1995 when the first 1,400 of 240,000 intercepts were released to the public. Their content was damning and supportive of the contentions of not only McCarthy but Whittaker Chambers, Elizabeth Bentley, Hoover, and others.

The collapse of Communism opened files of not only internal Soviet spy documents but also gave the FBI, CIA, and American scholars access to the files of the American Communist Party that had been hidden in a Russian warehouse since 1950. The cat was out of the clichéd bag.

Just who was exposed by these documents. Alger Hiss who had been the number three man at State behind Dean Acheson and Dean Rusk, and who, most assuredly, at some point, would have eventually been Secretary of State. Harry Dexter White, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, who purposely withheld allocated funding for the Chinese Nationalists, during their Civil War, that destroyed their currency and, thus, their efforts against Mao's Communists.

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg had been conduits for even more damaging information than the atom bomb, for which they were executed. Lauchlin Currie, Special Assistant to F.D.R. Samuel Dickstein, member of the House of Representatives from Brooklyn.

William and Martha Dodd, son and daughter of the U.S. ambassador to Germany in the 1930's. Lawrence Duggan, State Department Director of Latin American Affairs. Harold Ickes, Sr., father of Clinton's impeachment flack, who was Secretary of the Interior. Finally, William Weisband, U.S. Army Signal Security Agency. This is just a very few, the most prominent or household names one might say. "

Joe McCarthy Was Right

Air&Road · #26 09-27-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

"Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in
Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts — FBI recordings of Soviet
embassy communications between 1944-48 — the record is showing that
McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every
case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing
atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories
in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network"

Most-hated senator was right

McCarthy was kept at bay by political correctness. It was in its early stages at the time. Political Correctness is a HUGE part of the undoing of the USA.

JB3 · #27 09-27-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

"Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in
Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts — FBI recordings of Soviet
embassy communications between 1944-48 — the record is showing that
McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every
case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing
atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories
in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network"

Most-hated senator was right

"Joe McCarthy had been a Marine air gunner, an amateur boxer, a county
judge and towards his end, under constant attack, he began to drink
heavily. Herman said he certainly was over his head and his fall came
about after sweeping attacks on General Marshall and the Army."

Right, McCarthyism is what is known as a witch hunt. There are plenty of historical models. Started out with a kernel of truth, and in the end he's accusing the entire army and its commander.

Salem witch trials, Spanish Inquisition, ect. All events in which extremist views were rewarded, and those that objected on grounds of moderation or reason were lumped into the heretic camp.

McCarthy proved that he could limit the concept of free speech and freedom of expression which are American ideals through fear.

Dudesky · #28 09-27-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

"Joe McCarthy had been a Marine air gunner, an amateur boxer, a county
judge and towards his end, under constant attack, he began to drink
heavily. Herman said he certainly was over his head and his fall came
about after sweeping attacks on General Marshall and the Army."

Right, McCarthyism is what is known as a witch hunt. There are plenty of historical models. Started out with a kernel of truth, and in the end he's accusing the entire army and its commander.

Salem witch trials, Spanish Inquisition, ect. All events in which extremist views were rewarded, and those that objected on grounds of moderation or reason were lumped into the heretic camp.

McCarthy proved that he could limit the concept of free speech and freedom of expression which are American ideals through fear.

How many communists were found inside all levels of government through his witch hunt?

Txjake · #29 09-27-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

How many communists were found inside all levels of government through his witch hunt?

Just who was exposed by these documents. Alger Hiss who had been the number three man at State behind Dean Acheson and Dean Rusk, and who, most assuredly, at some point, would have eventually been Secretary of State. Harry Dexter White, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, who purposely withheld allocated funding for the Chinese Nationalists, during their Civil War, that destroyed their currency and, thus, their efforts against Mao's Communists.

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg had been conduits for even more damaging information than the atom bomb, for which they were executed. Lauchlin Currie, Special Assistant to F.D.R. Samuel Dickstein, member of the House of Representatives from Brooklyn.

William and Martha Dodd, son and daughter of the U.S. ambassador to Germany in the 1930's. Lawrence Duggan, State Department Director of Latin American Affairs. Harold Ickes, Sr., father of Clinton's impeachment flack, who was Secretary of the Interior. Finally, William Weisband, U.S. Army Signal Security Agency. This is just a very few, the most prominent or household names one might say. "

Dudesky · #30 09-27-2012, 12:15 PM

Was more than right.

Quote:

The Fall of Joe McCarthy

In December 1954, the Senate condemned McCarthy for "conduct… unbecoming a Member of the United States Senate…" The resolution focused on the senator’s conduct and did not refute any of his anti-Communist accusations. This effectively ended McCarthy’s career, as his colleagues avoided him and the public abandoned him. He continued serving in the Senate until his death in 1957 from cirrhosis, which some have claimed was the result of heavy drinking.
Even as McCarthy was being condemned, a series of strong anti-Communist bills were being introduced in Congress. Some historians have claimed that McCarthy conducted a "reign of terror," but even at the peak of McCarthy’s popularity, the Communist Party continued operating undisturbed in the U.S. and nobody testifying before McCarthy was ever indicted, tried or jailed for any crime.
Furthermore, classified documents released after the fall of the Soviet Union revealed that McCarthy had actually underestimated the number of Communist sympathizers in the U.S. government. While McCarthy’s methods were unethical and intrusive, he may have been closer to the truth than those who ridiculed and condemned him.

Read more at Suite101: Joseph McCarthy and Communist Subversion | Suite101.com Joseph McCarthy and Communist Subversion | Suite101.com