Reagan was a talented and charismatic mouthpiece for a well organized GOP.

I miss that level of sensibility from the republicans.

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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

Very well said. I couldn't agree more.

That lack of sensibility gave birth to the Tea Party.

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Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"

Yet it was Reagan who fathered "trickle-down economics" and other "reaganomic" principles that can be directly linked to the horrendous present economic situation. I wouldn't call that sensible, id call that feckless experimentation with the national economy and totally irresponsible.

I view the crash under the last year of Bush first year of Obama as the chickens coming home to roost from a national mindset of more for less first floated by Reagan.

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Well, at the time, those economic theories had not been fully tested, so it is a little easier to forgive the results. The implementation of those same unsuccessful practices by Bush 1 and Bush 2, without the cornerstone of reduced federal spending, that was absolutely irresponsible.

Unfortunately, Romney seems to be cut from the same cloth, and has yet to describe, in any meaningful manner, the reductions in federal spending that are an absolute must for the Voodoo Economic plan to not be an instant catastrophe.

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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

I wouldn't argue your point - could be. But let's not forget Bill Clinton. His desire for ALL to own a home.....that may have had a lot to do with the housing collapse as well. Many believe it did.


http://www.businessinsider.com/how-bill-clintons-balanced-budget-destroyed-the-economy-2012-9

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Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"

Bill Clinton the Republican. That was a gift to mortgage banks if there ever was one.

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Remember, Safety Third!
'99 E300 Turbodiesel, '82 300TD, 1996 12V Cummins Turbo, '94 Neoplan - Detroit 6V92TA

Prove it.

It is an article of progressive/Liberal faith; can't be proved. To the elites, it requires no proof.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

whats to prove? its self evident history.

Reagan sought to both lower taxes on the wealthy, increase defense spending, and increase tax on those earning less than 50k, all of which he did.

It was under his presidency that the US moved from the worlds largest international creditor to the worlds largest debtor nation.

He borrowed domestically and abroad to cover the lack of revenue that his experimental economic policy created, ushering in a new era of irresponsibility because the idea of borrowing the difference has become apparently an acceptable policy, and for JohnQ taxpayer, of course we all want to pay less taxes, so everyone loves the idea.

Ironically, He himself called the huge increase in national debt under his presidency his greatest disappointment. He raised taxes something like 11-12 times during his presidency, in the name of responsibility after his first huge slashing of the taxes and modification of tax code, but that only brought us about a 3rd of the way back.

Next, you need to correlate the decrease in job security in the 80s with the settling in of reaganomic policies over the long term, and the new republican standard of accepting Reaganomics as workable. Suddenly, it became MORE profitable to buy and sell companies at will, fire the employees and loot the company for huge gains for a few, while thousands have to search for another job. How many people lost their long term jobs during the 80s on this forum?

George Bush senior was the one who called them "Voodoo Economics", yet todays republican party will violently defend the policy of less taxes all around will balance the budged and deal with the debt.

Look at Romney's paper thin smoke and mirrors proposal of what he wants to do, more of the same telling everyone what they want to hear, that we don't have to face a painful increase in revenue combined with a slashing of government services to get out of the hole we have spent 30 years digging.

Basically, the concept of reaganomic policies is exceedingly attractive, that my taxes can be cut, yet somehow at the same time we can increase spending or maintain what was there earlier. For 30 years the republican standard has been to violently defend the idea of tax cuts every presidency, when Reagan himself attempted to undo some of what he started.

I think Reagan was a good president, but I think his greatest mistake was starting something that then ran out of control, and when the same idea was tried in the 1890s and failed under "horse and Sparrow" policy, back then you didn't have the escape hatch of borrowing the difference, we didn't have the level of international credit we did in the 80s.

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

I agree with Dropynski but disagree that Reagan was a good president. He was a natural leader who led us down the wrong path.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I liked his foreign policy personally, whatever his other faults. I view him as more good than bad concerning the greater danger of cold war era USSR, and I think he dealt with the USSR under Gorbachev well in modifying his hard line position when things started to come apart over there. Whatever his other faults, he did a good job there

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Gentlemen,

Lest we forget the major tax bill affecting rates was passed in Oct. 1986. Recall also that Democrats controlled the House, R's the Senate. Democrats Bill Bradley and Dick Gephardt, were prime tax reform leaders in the Senate and House respectively. I dug up the vote tally in the Senate: 97-3 yea!. Here's a little history lesson. See p 5 of the pdf for a tax reform timeline preceeding this.

http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metacrs8419/m1/1/high_res_d/IP267T.pdf

Point: Don't blame any purported residual effects of 80's tax policy solely on Reagan. He couldn't have done it without bipartisan help... and back then they actually did pass budgets, iirc.

Note: I am well aware that the debt rose on Reagan's watch: 900B to 2.6T.
I am also aware the debt rose on Clinton's watch by a slightly smaller amount:4.0T to 5.6T. But what's 100 billion among friends, huh?Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999

It's a self-evident fallacy to believe that correlation is causation.

For example, I think the Democrats running the Congress for 50 years caused everything bad that had happened in the USA until the Repos finally gained control of both houses. For proof I offer everything bad that happened while the Democrats ran the Congress.

Yeah, correlation is causation.

My example was specific, that was the presidency where we went from lending money to the world to owing money to the world. The door got pushed open then.

Since then, its been more of the same, regardless of party, because apart from the occasional clear statesman, few prospective presidential candidates want to tell the people something they don't want to hear.

One of the reasons I loved Ross Perot, who swooped in with his pie charts and told everyone they were crazy, then demonstrated how.

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

I think your analysis is too simple. No single factor controls all others; it is far more complex. The president, the consumer confidence, environmental reg, the attitude of regulators and inspectors, the make up of congress, the opponents of the imcumbants-and their views, the price of foreign steel, the cost of oil, the value of the US dollar, the weather, terrorist attacks on US property, etc.
Not to say the President, and his policies has zero effect, but his input is but one of many, many factors.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags