what is the big deal with Michigans right to work vote - Page 11 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Air&Road · #**151** 12-18-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Assuming those numbers are right, they are still equally meaningless. $173K is a great income for some, lousy for others who can achieve more. Either way, it is a good paying job that win or lose, you get paid. CEO of GM as in what? The current Obama appointee or the one that got canned? With that in mind, why would someone be President? Isn't what they are making about a $500K? It might be about prestige and the appearance of power.

This is an important point. Different people are motivated in different ways. Some people respond to nothing except money. Other people want the status of fancy furniture in a corner office. Still others want a fancy title. Everyone is different.

When I first started reading the exchange my first thought was that at least the GM CEO was paid with private industry profit as opposed to the union boss's money that was extorted from union members. I quickly realized that the GM CEO is at least partially paid with money extorted from the US taxpayer.

MS Fowler · #**152** 12-18-2012, 03:12 PM

Did anything that the Michigan legislature do eliminate unions? Did it make them illegal? Did it take away the right of a union to collectively bargain?
Or, did it simply allow people the right to work without joining a union?
What actual rights were lost? Unions can still recruit members, still have dues deducted, still strike.
Where is the threat that warranted all the hue and cry and outrage?

Air&Road · #**153** 12-18-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Did anything that the Michigan legislature do eliminate unions? Did it make them illegal? Did it take away the right of a union to collectively bargain?
Or, did it simply allow people the right to work without joining a union?
What actual rights were lost? Unions can still recruit members, still have dues deducted, still strike.
Where is the threat that warranted all the hue and cry and outrage?

Great point! Just before the Michigan vote I saw a popular politican giving a speech to a union group, falsely stating that they're rights for collective bargaining were going to be taken away if the bill passed.

That was one of those lies that politicians like to call being "disengenuous."

MS Fowler · #**154** 12-18-2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Great point! Just before the Michigan vote I saw a popular politican giving a speech to a union group, falsely stating that they're rights for collective bargaining were going to be taken away if the bill passed.

That was one of those lies that politicians like to call being "disengenuous."

Its the same argument I hear liberals (progressives) post frequently to counter the assertion about a loss of rights due to some government action.

whunter · #**155** 12-19-2012, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I don't believe I have ever seen them do that... have they?

Through the years:
Thousands have been locked and/or deleted.
An unknown number have been deleted by the webmaster.

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whunter · #**156** 12-19-2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Anyone care to address the violent language, physical violence, and threats of "blood" by Union activists? Why is the President not calling for "civility"? He is quick to do that when politically advantageous to himself.
Is thuggish behavior acceptable when it is the thugs of the political left? Sure seems like it based on the lack of condemnation of it.

The POTUS was encouraging them, and will not speak against unions, or for union restraint.

I am convinced the POTUS would have been happier with riots like the Arabic nations.

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whunter · #**157** 12-19-2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Not just the people of Michigan, all of us. Probably more important than we realize.

This is nothing new. It is a rehash of what many of our great grandparents fought for. When I say fought I do mean bloodshed. US military force has been used against tax paying citizens to settle labor disputes in this country and will be again if it comes to that. Thug force has been used all along. You can easily find the history of what I am saying. The futures of our offspring will partially be determined by this.

One remnant that I have seen is a question on a concealed carry permit: Are you involved in a labor dispute?

The reason this went as it did:

The unions are totally out of control trying to push changes to the Michigan constitution.

The POTUS and other Washington D.C. hacks should keep their mouth shut, and stay out of internal STATE matters.

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MS Fowler · #**158** 12-19-2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

The POTUS was encouraging them, and will not speak against unions, or for union restraint.

I am convinced the POTUS would have been happier with riots like the Arabic nations.

.

I notice that his calls for "civility" in public discourse never follow left wing demonstrations, riots, or mayhem. I would have some respect for him if he called for civility from the left as well as from the right.

Botnst · #**159** 12-19-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

....
The POTUS and other Washington D.C. hacks should keep their mouth shut, and stay out of internal STATE matters.

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That was settled in 1865.

strelnik · #**160** 12-19-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

FYI:

Michigan has one of the worst economies in the U.S.

The unions tried to force through state constitution amendments that would have crippled Michigan government and business.

Extreme Union arrogance backfired when the constitutional amendments FAILED.
These where funded - pushed by union money...
* Proposal 2: failed at the polls Result: Yes:41% No:59%.
* Proposal 4: failed at the polls Result: Yes:42% No:58%
The State News :: All Michigan ballot proposals fail in election

Too many people here have direct negative union experience.
Here is a boringly common example of the local unions.
Chrysler Had To Rehire The Workers Caught Getting Stoned During Lunch

Note: The POTUS came in working as a union activist trying to crush "Right To Work"..

2011 House Bill 4003: Extend "right-to-work" law to government and school employees - Michigan Votes

Michigan Is a Right-to-Work State [Michigan Capitol Confidential]

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Curiously enough, when I asked my friends who are retired UAW workers, one for 40 years, they AGREED with RTW.

Why?

They say the union spent 17 million of their union dues, they said, on contributions to local and national p[oliticians with NO VOTE or rank and fuile approval.

These same officials recently rebuilt their offices in the union halls.

These guys said they were tired of their money going to causes like this without their consent.

Well, ok, it's their money and their opinion.

I have not been a member of a union since 1969. I've done ok, based on hard work, persistence and being prepared.

I truly believe that chance favors the prepared, and YES everyone has to struggle, but we make choices that are pivotal events.

Oh, one other thing: life is not fair.

My son saw this all and understands it now. major victory for his maturity.