a little tuneup - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

strelnik · #16 12-14-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The torch would be a bit dangerous in there...........I'd be afraid of damaging the exhaust manifold.

With 1 and 3, there isn't enough room for any tools............a socket with extensions is going to be very difficult. So, I am really praying that the heat shield isn't compromising the space for the plug socket.

You must have a post 1999 vehicle. That's when serviceability and packaging engineering went out the window, thanks to the guys who preceded cerberus, who cared even less.

This is why Chrysler can rebate itself into bankruptcy, they don't get it and never will.

elchivito · #17 12-14-2012, 10:48 AM

Other than topping up fluids and gas, anything I do to a vehicle takes all day and the better part of tomorrow.

engatwork · #18 12-14-2012, 12:45 PM

The only Chrysler product I will work on is the Ram with the Cummins diesel. I won't mess with any others.

Brian Carlton · #19 12-14-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

The only Chrysler product I will work on is the Ram with the Cummins diesel. I won't mess with any others.

Smart man.

Don't ever work on a van..........

Brian Carlton · #20 12-14-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

You must have a post 1999 vehicle. That's when serviceability and packaging engineering went out the window, thanks to the guys who preceded cerberus, who cared even less.

This is why Chrysler can rebate itself into bankruptcy, they don't get it and never will.

Yep, it's a 2002.

They moved the engine forward under the cowl so that the forward cylinders are practically inaccessible from inside the vehicle.

hill · #21 12-14-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Yep, it's a 2002.

They moved the engine forward under the cowl so that the forward cylinders are practically inaccessible from inside the vehicle.

What about pulling them from below? I had a car that had to have 1" holes drilled threw the fender wells to pull the back plugs.

pmckechnie · #22 12-14-2012, 01:08 PM

Brian, just be glad it is not a Ford. Ford charged $500 labor to change 8 plugs plus $150 for any that broke off. The plugs are about 6 in long with about 2 in below the threads. On the vans you have to remove the body of the vehicle to change the plugs But then there is always the 6.0L diesel that kept a friend of mine busy full time just trying to keep them running.

In other words, the manufacturers just don't care. They seem to just look at the added revenues in the shop, not the customers.

At this point, I believe I would have to by GM if I were to buy a truck.

Paul

JB3 · #23 12-14-2012, 03:10 PM

this reminds me of a 1996 2wd jeep cherokee I used to own. It was an ordered vehicle, with a 4cyl and A/C.

I thought, how hard could it possibly be to replace the plugs on this in line 4 Rwd vehicle.

Guess again, the addition of the option of A/C on the smallest engine choice made plug #1 completely covered by the compressor. To change what is usually the easiest plug, I had to remove the A/C compressor and open up a bunch of lines that then needed to be recharged.

I thought I was done then when to my surprise, the clutch pedal actually broke off the pivot point due to substandard welding, (it was not fully welded to the pivot section)

Getting the pedal assembly out took a day and a half of relentless struggle with the door sill breaking my back, but ultimately, I was able to remove, and reweld the item and the jeep was pretty reliable after that.

For years it clearly was getting a 3 cyl spark plug job though, the one behind the A/C compressor was worn away almost to nothing

Dudesky · #24 12-14-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

How difficult could it possibly be to do a tuneup on a Dodge 318.........plugs, wires, cap, and rotor?

I figured it'll take no more than two hours and I head out this afternoon at 1:00 figuring I'll be done by 3:30 at the latest.

Well............

Firstly, these idiots changed the distributor housing to aluminum and the cap is secured with steel screws..........5mm. I struggled with one and spent the better part of 30 minutes to get it free without breaking it. The second wasn't so lucky. Snapped off right at the top of the threaded hole, despite my best efforts. Tried to drill it.........drill walked into the aluminum, of course. Tried to free the remaining stub with a chisel..........fractured the aluminum ear that had the thread attached.

Now it needs a distributor.

Well, figure I'll do the plugs. Again, these geniuses decided that this engine needed "heat shields" around the plugs. This is a cylinder of steel that is pressed into the exhaust manifold directly around the plug. The art of the press isn't very good and some of them deform during this press affair (at the factory). The result is that you cannot get a socket around the hex of the plug.

So, the only option is to attempt to pull the shield. However, 10 years of corrosion isn't about to let that happen without a struggle. #6 wasn't too bad.........took about 30 minutes. #8 was miserable..........took two hours. The shield tore away at the top of manifold..........leaving a struggle to remove the last 3/4".

Fortunately, #5, and #7 could be removed without removing the shields.

So, at 6:00..........four plugs are installed..........no wires and no cap and rotor.

The next obstacle, possibly insurmountable, is #1 and #3. On the van, these two are within 2" of the firewall. It is absolutely impossible to remove the heat shields from these two plugs if that becomes imperative. So, I'm hoping for some luck there...........I have no good alternative.

The stupidity of Chrysler will turn a two hour job into a 10 hour job by the time I'm done. If the left head has to be removed, the job goes up to 20 hours............just for a tuneup.

Guess you didn't see Mr Murphy watching from the other side of the car.
He makes the coffee when he shows up at my place.

Brian Carlton · #25 12-14-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

Guess you didn't see Mr Murphy watching from the other side of the car.
He makes the coffee when he shows up at my place.

I saw him today.

I managed to get a socket into the #1 heat shield after one hour of struggle. Unfortunately, it was a wasted hour because the socket will not engage the plug............similar to 6 and 8, the heat shield is interfering. Absolutely impossible to get the heat shields out from either inside the van or from under the hood.

Went and spoke to the mechanic and he advised that I most likely could access via the wheel wells. Lo and behold, he's correct. I started on 2 and 4 on the right side. Again, the socket would not reach the plug. So, I spent two hours pulling the heat shield on 4. Unfortunately, after it was out, it left residue, rust and material in the hole..........the tiny area outside the plug that I must have for the socket. So, I struggle with a tiny file making very slow progress. I cannot get behind the plug and there is material back there. So, I give it up and attempt to pull the heat shield from 2. That goes reasonably well and I have it out in about 45 minutes. But, it also leaves residue, material, and rust around the base of the plug.

So, another four hours and I've still got four more plugs to R & R. Found a distributor on ebay for $45 shipped..........the highlight of the day.

I'm going to need to find some type of hole saw that can cut steel. That's the only way this is ever going to get resolved. Getting the head clean outside the base of the plug is next to impossible with a file.

One other possibility is to use a oxy/acetylene torch and attempt to burn away the residual material. This is fraught because of the risk to the head and manifold. There isn't any good visibility to determine exactly what's happening down there.

Brian Carlton · #26 12-14-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmckechnie

Brian, just be glad it is not a Ford. Ford charged $500 labor to change 8 plugs plus $150 for any that broke off. The plugs are about 6 in long with about 2 in below the threads. On the vans you have to remove the body of the vehicle to change the plugs But then there is always the 6.0L diesel that kept a friend of mine busy full time just trying to keep them running.

In other words, the manufacturers just don't care. They seem to just look at the added revenues in the shop, not the customers.

At this point, I believe I would have to by GM if I were to buy a truck.

Paul

If I owned a shop, I'd need to charge $500. to do these plugs..........most definitely. I don't see how anyone could do it in less than five hours..........no matter how good you are.

The only possibility to do it faster is if they have a fast method of removing the heat shield and cleaning the hole around the plug. If so, then they could do the entire job in 3 hours or less.

Brian Carlton · #27 12-14-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill

What about pulling them from below? I had a car that had to have 1" holes drilled threw the fender wells to pull the back plugs.

Actually, there is perfect access via the fenderwells. I just didn't realize it. This vehicle doesn't even have any inside fenderwell plastic to impede access. There's only the heat shield which lifts up and out of the way.

cmbdiesel · #28 12-14-2012, 07:08 PM

Have you considered dropping the engine to change the plugs?
Might be a time saver....

I F'ing hate Chryslers.

Hope the rest goes easier.

Brian Carlton · #29 12-14-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Have you considered dropping the engine to change the plugs?
Might be a time saver....

I F'ing hate Chryslers.

Hope the rest goes easier.

I don't think you drop the engine. You lift the van body up over the engine.

I really can't complain. The 1989 van, much easier to work on, lasted 15 years before I let it go due to rust. The engine and trans were still OK.........with 140K on the clock.

This one will be fine once I get rid of these damn heat shields.

suginami · #30 12-14-2012, 08:47 PM

That 318 is a good motor.

I worked with a guy who had a late 80's Dodge Ramcharger and put well over 400,000 trouble free miles on it.