Just because it doesn't cause an active infection doesn't mean you won't get sick. I've seen plenty of people who were asymptomatic get bad flu symptoms shortly after getting a flu shot, and not just once. The same people would have the same reaction year after year.

One of my jobs requires flu vaccination as a condition of employment. Most people get the mist. Unfortunately, the mist makes me sick (three years in a row, hella sick three years in a row-no more for me). Fortunately I've figured out what to write on the forms to get the shot, which doesn't bother me.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

Skippy states- Just because it doesn't cause an active infection doesn't mean you won't get sick.
"Sick" is a active infection of some sort. We can debate our personal "feelings" and observations all day long but the Facts of science do not care- Herd immunity, works.

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2dieseljohn
1979 300sd (283,000+) Road Trips
1983 240D 4-speed (350,000+) Daily Driver
1967 E-TypeS1 in bits and pieces

Your Wife owns a Hospital??? WOW... I bet she's Rich.

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For the Saved, this world is the worst it will ever get.
For the unSaved, this world is the best it will ever get.

Clk's Ebay Stuff BUY SOMETHING NOW!!!

Have you by any chance observed a person who has slammed half a bottle of whisky in an hour? There is no active infection at work, but I think we can agree the person is likely to be pretty sick.

Dead virus triggers an immune response. That's what it's for. Side effects of your immune system responding can include all the classic flu symptoms. Some people get those symptoms worse than others.

Sick:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sick

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

Nice response. With the black and white definition of "sick" posted someone had to show that "sick" is not a black and white definition word or idea.

Had a colleague get paralyzed from Guillen-Barre syndrome as a result of getting a flu shot. I haven't gotten one since.

CDC states that GBC can be a side effect of a vaccination: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/guillainbarre.htm

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The Flu Shot or immunization you get this year will not protect you next year if the Virus has changed.

The same if you get the Flu this year. Afterwards you might or might not be resistant to the same Flu Virus if it comes around again and you will not have resistant to an new Flu Virus.

With the Flu Immunizations they are not attempting to create a Herd Immunity because next year the Virus can be different.

Since the Virus tends to start somewhere and spread out from there they are attempting to immunize enough people to stop the Spread.
That would work except that World wide transportation works against it.
I think another point is I don't know anyone in My circle of Family or friends that has been Hospitalized due to the effects of the Flu let alone died from it.

So at least out here in CA where I live I don't think either are likely to happen.

What has brought the Flu issue to prominence is that the Baby Boomers like Myself are old now and are believed to be more at risk if the catch the Flu.

Another issue is that some Drug Company/s devleoped the immunization/s and now they are trying to market it to People like Myself that don't want it.
The Drug Company Ad Department is going to try to create a need for this product; and, it is a product that is going to change every time the Flu Virus changes and the long term side effects will be unknown until some unfortunate Person gets them.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Local Hs senior was in the new last week -got sick with the flu on christmas day- turned into numonia and he died new yrs eve. No healt problems before that

Flower Mound Teen Dies From Complications of Flu | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth

I got the flu about 5 years ago & was sick as for 3 weeks ~ wished I was dead !! Had a flu shot every year since & no sign of the flu.
If I went to hospital, it would be good to think that all the staff are flu free.

__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

Senior Flu Shots Are Proving To Be Exceptionally Dangerous
A total of 6.1 percent of seniors injected with the regular Fluzone vaccine experienced a serious adverse event, compared to 7.4 percent of those receiving the newer high-dose version. According to the package insert the SAE’s reported during the post-approval use of the vaccine include:

• Thrombocytopenia (abnormally low platelet count, which can result in abnormal bleeding)
• Guillain-Barre syndrome
• Myelitis (spinal cord inflammation)
• Optic neuritis (inflammation of the optic nerve)
• Lymphadenopathy (enlarged lymph nodes)
• Facial palsy (Bell’s palsy)
• Paresthesia (numbness/tingling of the skin)
• Itchy skin
• Anaphylaxis (life-threatening whole-body allergic reaction)
• Stevens-Johnson syndrome
• Vasculitis (inflammatory destruction of blood vessels)
• Difficulty breathing, shortness of breath
• Chest pain
• Brachial neuritis (excruciating unilateral shoulder pain, followed by paralysis of shoulder)
• Pharyngitis and rhinitis (inflammation of the throat or pharynx, and the nose, respectively)
• Convulsions, fainting, dizziness
Nurses Boycott Flu Vaccine

UK Nurses are also saying that the flu shots are unsafe and have been reluctant to have the vaccines. A report on the website Nursing Times.net (4) states that unvaccinated nurses taking part in a survey said that they did not have the flu vaccine because of safety concerns. The report states:

When asked why they had not had the vaccine, the majority of unvaccinated respondents highlighted concerns about vaccine side effects.

The Nursing Times stated that researchers had found that concerns about side effects and efficacy were the two most frequent reasons for nurses refusing the flu vaccine.

If nurses are not having the vaccine through fears that they are unsafe, then surely this must indicate that these vaccines are unsafe? Could the reason for this be, that they are seeing a higher than average number of adverse reactions coming into the hospitals?

The above from the below site:
Healthy 7 Year Old Girl Dies in Mother’s Arms After Flu Shot | Vactruth.com

Flu vaccine victim testimonies
Flu vaccine reaction testimonies

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Senior Flu Shots Are Proving To Be Exceptionally Dangerous
A total of 6.1 percent of seniors injected with the regular Fluzone vaccine experienced a serious adverse event, compared to 7.4 percent of those receiving the newer high-dose version. According to the package insert the SAE’s reported during the post-approval use of the vaccine include:

• Thrombocytopenia (abnormally low platelet count, which can result in abnormal bleeding)
• Guillain-Barre syndrome
• Myelitis (spinal cord inflammation)
• Optic neuritis (inflammation of the optic nerve)
• Lymphadenopathy (enlarged lymph nodes)
• Facial palsy (Bell’s palsy)
• Paresthesia (numbness/tingling of the skin)
• Itchy skin
• Anaphylaxis (life-threatening whole-body allergic reaction)
• Stevens-Johnson syndrome
• Vasculitis (inflammatory destruction of blood vessels)
• Difficulty breathing, shortness of breath
• Chest pain
• Brachial neuritis (excruciating unilateral shoulder pain, followed by paralysis of shoulder)
• Pharyngitis and rhinitis (inflammation of the throat or pharynx, and the nose, respectively)
• Convulsions, fainting, dizziness
Nurses Boycott Flu Vaccine

UK Nurses are also saying that the flu shots are unsafe and have been reluctant to have the vaccines. A report on the website Nursing Times.net (4) states that unvaccinated nurses taking part in a survey said that they did not have the flu vaccine because of safety concerns. The report states:

When asked why they had not had the vaccine, the majority of unvaccinated respondents highlighted concerns about vaccine side effects.

The Nursing Times stated that researchers had found that concerns about side effects and efficacy were the two most frequent reasons for nurses refusing the flu vaccine.

If nurses are not having the vaccine through fears that they are unsafe, then surely this must indicate that these vaccines are unsafe? Could the reason for this be, that they are seeing a higher than average number of adverse reactions coming into the hospitals?

The above from the below site:
Healthy 7 Year Old Girl Dies in Mother’s Arms After Flu Shot | Vactruth.com

Flu vaccine victim testimonies
Flu vaccine reaction testimonies

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I am renewing My Respiratory Therapy License this month and I was required to take an Ethics Course. Below is few but not all of the principles.

Think about the benefits and the side effects of the Flu Immunizations, read the below ethics that I am supposed to follow and compare that to telling some Health Care Worker that they have to be immunized or they are fired from their Job.

Also note that Hospital Health Care workers themselves are exposed to all kinds of illness and diseases daily and they move from Patient to Patient and can spread much worse than the Flue to Patients. And, are supposed to use proceedures to decrease if not eliminate the transfer of pathogens to the Patients or themselves.

Un-immunized visiting Family Members or non-health Care Employees are all over the Hospital and in Patient’s Rooms.

When you Immunize someone for the Flu you are doing something that may or may not be of benefit to the Person but you are surely exposing them to possibility of side effects.
Forcing someone to be immunized because the might get the Flu and the might spread the Flu to a Patient accordingto the Ethics of it that puts the Flu Immunization into very a gray area.


PROFESSIONAL CODE OF ETHICS AND PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONS
A professional code of ethics describes a body of rules, principles, and standards, which govern the conduct of its members. Each profession may adopt a code of ethics to self-regulate the conduct of its members. Furthermore, a code of ethics establishes the group as a profession, and promotes a certain image of that profession to the public. Physicians, nurses, Respiratory Care Practitioners, and many other professional healthcare providers have adopted a code of ethics.

Non-maleficence is also known as “do no harm”. Health care professionals strive not to cause harm to their patients and generally when harm is caused it is not intentional. In all interventions, diagnostic and therapeutic, the professional is committed to evaluate what will cause the least possible harm and to avoid harm if at all possible. Respiratory Care Practitioners provide therapies which benefit their patients also can cause hazards and complications. As such it is imperative that RCPs know indications, contraindications, hazards and complications to these therapies and evaluate before applying them to each patient.

Beneficence means to give benefit. This concept challenges RCPs to go beyond “doing no harm” and actively contributing to the health and well being of their patients. In health care today technology is such that individuals are kept alive even if there is not any likelihood of recovery. Ethical issues are presented when prolonging of life and quality of life are in disagreement.

Informed Consent means that patients have the right to understand the rationale, risks, and alternatives to proposed interventions before giving or withholding consent.[1] Does the following scenario apply informed consent?

Autonomy, from the English Common Law tradition, means that patients have the right to determine what happens to their own bodies. The simplest example of autonomy is a patient making a decision about his or her own care even if it is not in keeping with recommendations from health care practitioners.

Veracity is telling the truth. There is a tendency to distinguish between telling the truth and altering it in those cases in which the facts may be perceived harmful. Sometimes in health care, patients are not told the complete truth about their diagnosis or prognosis because of this perception. In addition it also applies to interaction among health care workers. It is even involved in cases where one professional may observe incompetent or unprofessional behavior. The Respiratory Care Practice Act clearly designates the responsibility of being truthful and of reporting any inappropriate practice on the part of a fellow profession. The term “whistleblowing” has often been used in a negative fashion but is of importance in ensuring patient safety and high quality of care.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

My thoughts:

In the Army I was required/forced to be vaccinated for various things, black plague comes to mind

Nobody really wants the "herd" treatment.
Egg allergy=no flu shot(and others ) Hint Hint
In the healthcare field, "universal precautions" (google it) should keep you and your PT's adequately protected.
Don't lick doorknobs.

Now that I've finally escaped from the command and control of the military, I don't ever plan on getting another vaccination again.

I have a good friend that NEVER washes his hands before he eats... even after we've been to several public places touching everything in sight.. then go somewhere and eat with our hands(ie. burger/pizza). I personally think that is foul. He thinks I'm nuts... use common sense.

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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

That's correct. An employer has the right to ask anything legal and ethical of their employees. An employee has the right to comply or ask for their last paycheck.

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Including protecting the profits of a company with whom they have an unholy alliance.