Do you. - Page 13 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Air&Road · #**181** 01-16-2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

And as said before. Before according them with full citizen rights, we need to make sure they are alive as you and I are.

Separate the fetus and show me it can pass the SAME tests that you and I can pass to be declared alive. Till then, it is a matter of opinion. If it is proved to be a living being and not have similar properties to a tumor or skin tag, your argument holds water. Till then, you cannot accord it the same rights as you and I hold.

We've hashed through all this before. My desire to protect unborn children is from my heart, not from the lawbooks.

Again, the mother does INDEED have a choice. She can choose whether or not to conceive.

aklim · #**182** 01-16-2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

We've hashed through all this before. My desire to protect unborn children is from my heart, not from the lawbooks.

Again, the mother does INDEED have a choice. She can choose whether or not to conceive.

And THAT is the point. It comes from your heart. It doesn't come from any logical proof, just emotional appeal which I cannot see as giving you any right to interfere in someone's life. "I feel" or "it comes from the heart" is NOT license to interfere in my life, is it? Or put it another way, what does what I feel give me, in terms of license to interfere in your life? "I feel that Jews and black people are bad for society" doesn't give me the license to gas and lock them up, does it?

And she should also have the choice to abort or keep since it isn't YOUR body and you have yet to prove it is a living human being.

All that said, when you and your proxy interfere, how can you blame others for feeling ill about you for meddling in my life for no good reason?

Air&Road · #**183** 01-16-2013, 03:02 PM

Nope it's not my body, but the innocent fetus is not HER body.

aklim · #**184** 01-16-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Nope it's not my body, but the innocent fetus is not HER body.

However, as host of the piece of tissue, and you haven't proved it to be more than that, she has the right to eject the guest out at will. Much like you have the right to toss me out of your house at will.

Now if it can be proven to be more than tissue, there might be some discussion of how to handle that case. Apparently you think the standards used to declare death are not sufficient to judge this case but is sufficient to pull the plug on you at the hospital so you seem to have multiple standards to pick and choose from. There seems to be one criteria for a fetus and another for you and I. Which are you going with?

Air&Road · #**185** 01-16-2013, 03:45 PM

Aklim,

Respectfully, it gets tiring going over this same old argument over and over. I have my opinions and you have yours. We both believe our own positions equally as firm as the other.

I feel that a woman should take responsibility for her actions and make the decision to conceive or not. You feel otherwise.

Respectfully

aklim · #**186** 01-16-2013, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Aklim,

Respectfully, it gets tiring going over this same old argument over and over. I have my opinions and you have yours. We both believe our own positions equally as firm as the other.

I feel that a woman should take responsibility for her actions and make the decision to conceive or not. You feel otherwise.

Respectfully

The point is this. It is an OPINION that would drive you to get a proxy to do your dirty work. Well, if you get it, you cannot say that you aren't involved, can you? Regardless of the case at hand, be it abortion or save the whales, you cannot absolve yourself from blame. As such, people will now view you as the enemy which is why you get barbs thrown at you.

Lets talk about something we can agree on. Fiscal Irresponsibility is bad. If I voted my senator in, knowing full well that he is fiscally irresponsible, do you agree that his pork is my fault as well as his? Now if he said he'd be frugal but changed his mind, oh well. But going into it knowing full well what he intends to do makes me as guilty as him. I voted him in on a platform of spending increases. Can I say that it is not my fault?

The Clk Man · #**187** 01-16-2013, 05:10 PM

Life begins when the females egg is fertilized. Within a short time the baby starts to grow. Abortion is murder, plain and simple IN MY OPINION.

ramonajim · #**188** 01-16-2013, 05:39 PM

So if we follow Larry Logic (TM) the woman who, being a responsible type person taking personal responsibility for her actions by using birth control (i.e. responsibly trying to avoid conception) she'll never get pregnant.

Unless, in spite of religiously taking the pill (is that a contradiction in terms for you, Larry?), she conceives anyway (it happens) or consistently using a condom, she conceives anyway (it happens) or adhering religiously to the pope's own rhythm method (surely THAT isn't a contradiction in terms), (it happens a lot), or, heaven forbid, she gets raped and conceives (it happens, no matter how many dumb#### republicans claim otherwise).

Of course, I don't actually believe that Larry assumes that personally responsible women never get pregnant. Which leads me to ask: Larry, do you actually consider it your business to step in and Save The Fetus Unconditionally (STFU) regardless of circumstances?

kerry · #**189** 01-16-2013, 06:16 PM

It's remarkable that 'Do you believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ' almost always translates into 'Do you hold conservative social and political beliefs?' On a strictly theoretical basis, Christian politics could fall anywhere across the spectrum from right wing anarchist to left wing anarchist, but it's extremely rare, especially on this forum, to find a US Christian who would pose a question like the OP's who wasn't at the far right end of the political spectrum.

aklim · #**190** 01-16-2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

Life begins when the females egg is fertilized. Within a short time the baby starts to grow. Abortion is murder, plain and simple IN MY OPINION.

Which is fine and you are entitled to your OPINION. As long as you don't make someone else comply with that OPINION, no issue.

elchivito · #**191** 01-16-2013, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

It's remarkable that 'Do you believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ' almost always translates into 'Do you hold conservative social and political beliefs?' On a strictly theoretical basis, Christian politics could fall anywhere across the spectrum from right wing anarchist to left wing anarchist, but it's extremely rare, especially on this forum, to find a US Christian who would pose a question like the OP's who wasn't at the far right end of the political spectrum.

Actually, I remember (but am loathe to look up) a post in which the CLK man said in so many words that he voted for and supports President Obama. I suspect that may have changed though. Back and forth, maybe more than a few times.

The Clk Man · #**192** 01-16-2013, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Actually, I remember (but am loathe to look up) a post in which the CLK man said in so many words that he voted for and supports President Obama. I suspect that may have changed though. Back and forth, maybe more than a few times.

Can you show me please?

elchivito · #**193** 01-17-2013, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

Can you show me please?

I looked briefly and didn't find it. There was one post in which you claimed to be a Democrat. I'm probably mistaken, which supports Kerry's point.

Air&Road · #**194** 01-17-2013, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

It's remarkable that 'Do you believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ' almost always translates into 'Do you hold conservative social and political beliefs?' On a strictly theoretical basis, Christian politics could fall anywhere across the spectrum from right wing anarchist to left wing anarchist, but it's extremely rare, especially on this forum, to find a US Christian who would pose a question like the OP's who wasn't at the far right end of the political spectrum.

I know quite a number of people who, at least claim, to be Christians, that would make people like Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer look like RWNJ's.