The Vent Thread

[JB3]

he probably was escaping the scene before you called the cops. Guy like that knows how far to push then when to cut and run when he's pushed too far.

[TheDon]

I probably would have introduced him to the "boss" the second or third time he got in my face.

You come on my property and look at a car with a fair price in great condition that you probably no nothing more than "it looks nice" and you go from zero to ahole in 2 seconds.. Somethings not right.

[spdrun]

Anyone who'd report an e-mail as "abusive" for lowballing is a d'bag themselves. Don't like the offer? Don't respond or counter with a higher one. Don't take it personally -- negotiation is just business even if the starting points are miles apart.

As a New Yorker (who's dealt in business with quite a few Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Persians, Turks, and Jewish people of various nationalities -- all of which have haggling strongly culturally ingrained), I'm USED to hardass haggling and NEVER get insulted. If you lose your cool and take it personal, the other party wins by default.

Example: my initial offer for my condo was about 20% below ask, which would insult a lot of sellers in other parts of the US -- we met roughly in the middle at the end, as expected.

[cmbdiesel]

Nothing wrong with backing down and walking away.
In fact, it's really the only option that makes sense to a business owner.
No good can come from escalating the confrontation.
When I writing estimates for my brothers shop (body and mechanical) I would name the price, and if the people wanted to discuss where the number came from, no problem, I would show them all the line items, especially where I had reduced costs to their benefit.
If they wanted to argue, I would tell them sorry that I couldn't tell them what they wanted, but they were perfectly welcome to go to a different shop and inquire there. Then I would turn and walk back to my office.

The best part is when some of those people would come back after getting higher estimates elsewhere (I really did try to make all my sheets as fair as possible, so I was generally lower than most other shops in the area)
They would come in and tell me they were ready to get the repairs done, and if I felt they were DB enough, I would tell them we were too busy and so sorry... just can't fit you in.

We also towed for local and State PD... those people were a whole different bag of douche...

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by JB3

vent about billable hours by professionals.

Had a structural engineer come by to look at a foundation that was heavily cracked. He wasn't overly concerned, though he suggested injecting epoxy in the cracks and putting in a couple steel straps as insurance. Took a few pics, shot the shyte, ect.

This visit took about 15 minutes including conversational segways about wives, kids, cars, ect, yet today I get a bill for 1.5 hours of consultation plus the charge for coming by.

at 75 dollars an hour, plus the 75 dollar visit fee, they doubled their charge over what was actually done. would have been about 100 bucks, now its about 200.

Did he write up his recommendations? Did he have to travel to your location and back? It all takes time. If he is riding to your location in his car he cannot be making money from any other client.

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by TylerH860

Wow, my first confrontation with a shipper followed by my first confrontation with a drive up customer within such a short period...

A somewhat tatty looking white family drives up in a beat up mid 2000s Mazda Protege 5 and bolts towards my 2002 Ford Thunderbird. Its a 2002 with 120,000 miles and I'm asking $12000 for it. I did some research and was sure to price it lower than the next cheapest Thunderbird within 300 miles by alot but I did still have some room.

I gave them a minute to look as I don't like to pounce on people. I walked up and started to introduce myself, but the oldest male of the group cuts me off and immediately asked what the mileage was. When I told them 120,000, he gasped, whistled, whatever, and told me my price was ridiculous. I'm used to people spouting off like that without doing an iota of research so it really didn't bother me in the slightest. I replied that I had gone through the car thoroughly, it runs and drives like new, and if it had half miles then it would be priced at $20,000 instead of $12000. It was a slight exaggeration but I was doing a little alliteration.

The man immediately got in my face and said, that's bull$hit, and asked if there was another salesman. He didn't want some "punk kid" to wait on him and talk "bull$hit". T I'm a pretty disarming guy and have not had someone try and physically intimidate, and insult me like that since high school.

Getting hot but still holding my temper I told him the car was mine and I own the lot, and leave my.... but he once again wouldn't let me finish my sentence. He got pretty much nose to nose with me and told me to go back inside before something bad happens. How does an a-hole like you sell cars, or somesuch.

I stood my ground and repeated get off my property now, and was starting to ad that in 3 years of doing business I've never had a confrontation like this, but once again he cut me off, got even closer, and said there was one with 40,000 miles down the road for $18000. Actually they were asking $20,000 as I had done my research, but once again, he wouldn't let me get two words out. He just dept repeating, louder and louder, keep talkin' Keep talkin'. Then, you won't sell me anything, what's the point?

I tried to get the words out a few more times but it was just like Dr. Evil shushing his son in the Austin Powers movie.

The guy was a nut case, I turned around and walked inside. The nut case and the rest of the family, who were dead silent the entire time promptly left. It probably made him feel great that he got me to back down and walk away on my own turf, but I wasn't escalating a situation.

You can always say come on in and the boss will speak to you about how he set the price. Then go in side and sit down at the desk and tell him how you set the price. I really hate it when someone is disrespectful to me but it does not pay to allow yourself the luxury to get angry. He wants you to react that way.

[TylerH860]

I've done that enough times. It never works. These people are just driving by and have no idea what they are looking at. I never had to deal with this before moving locations. My old space was a warehouse with no vehicles parked outdoors for drive by traffic. Everyone came in from the internet, and generally they had done their homework and saw the value. My close rate was more than 50%. Business has tripled since the move thanks to drive by sales, so I can't complain.

The drive by people often scoff at the prices, but most of these uninformed buyers don't have the cash to buy a vehicle at 10% of the asking price and a 500 credit score so I can't do anything for them. Makes it easy to pre-qualify and broom. Then there's the old crusty old guys that can pay cash but remember paying $5 for a car eons ago and don't know the current market. They are much easier to work with, but they still never buy.

Its not worth my time and energy fixing the stupid in these people. I have a much harder time finding good cars for decent prices than finding good customers these days. I enjoy the challenge of finding cars. I do not enjoy challenging customers.

I'm sure alot of you have tried to shop for cheap cars in the last few years and realized how hard it is to find decent ones.

In this situation he didn't just scoff at the price; I could care less about that. He insulted, belittled, and threatened me. He needed to leave, now.

[spdrun]

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I'm sure alot of you have tried to shop for cheap cars in the last few years and realized how hard it is to find decent ones.

Should we thank Nobuma or Bearded Bennie for this?

[TylerH860]

Its beyond cash for clunkers now.

Buy here pay here lots will literally pay retail on a mid-2000s Japanese car and make money on 29.9% financing. People buy these cars because they need transportation but their credit does not improve because the lots don't report to the credit bureau. They can't save $5, let alone plan to lay out several thousand for a car purchase.

I don't think you can blame Obama and Bernanke for people spending more than they make and borrowing money to buy now rather than save money to buy later. Its a cultural issue.

[t walgamuth]

Uninformed consumers is always a problem for someone trying to do things the right way.

It was always a problem in my Architectural business too. With my real estate rentals I advertise on Craigs list and get a lot of phishing emails but they are pretty readily broomed out. They pretty much never come to look at anything and give the sort of stupid comments like your fellow did.

In thirty years of practicing Architecture I had two contractors who tried to physically intimidate me and one or two who came close to doing so. I was in the situation of having the upper hand since I controlled their money supply so it was pretty easy not to get angry. As far as being influenced by it, I always figured not to give in to wrong requests and let the chips fall where they may. If threatened with a gun or knife I would have given in at the moment but gone to the police immediately later.

If one is a crook these sorts can perhaps be manipulated but I never was inclined to try to work with idiots. Life is too short.

I can think of two clients who I accepted on large projects knowing they probably were going to be a pain and a few who started out fine but turned to the dark side when things progressed to a point where they thought they could finish the project without me. In cases like this I gritted my teeth and finished the job correctly so it would be no excuses right and endured their difficult natures for a couple of years.

I have also had a couple of business partnerships where my partner went over to the dark side. In this case I bought them out if possible, the other again, gritted my teeth and finished the job doing my best to protect myself.

Early in my Architectural career I had a partner who went over to the dark side. I responded with legal action and we wrangled for a year or so until there was no money left in it. I avoided legal action as much as possible after that.

I had one business partner I wanted to assault myself. Thank goodness I did not.

[Skid Row Joe]

Originally Posted by TylerH860

Its beyond cash for clunkers now.

Buy here pay here lots will literally pay retail on a mid-2000s Japanese car and make money on 29.9% financing. People buy these cars because they need transportation but their credit does not improve because the lots don't report to the credit bureau. They can't save $5, let alone plan to lay out several thousand for a car purchase.

I don't think you can blame Obama and Bernanke for people spending more than they make and borrowing money to buy now rather than save money to buy later. Its a cultural issue.

Read this last night:
" poor people work for their money - rich people let their money work for them."

Lotta truth to it, pertains the habits of "people spending more than they make and borrowing money to buy now rather than save more to buy later," have locked themselves in a position where they will always have to work for their money, just to try to keep up with their spending habit.

[Simpler=Better]

People who use a 1/4 mile entrance ramp as a passing lane shortcut when traffic is crawling at 5mph. I've had them play chicken with me trying to force their way back in. Not a good idea against a dirty 15 yr old car

[anghrist]

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I stood my ground and repeated get off my property now, and was starting to ad that in 3 years of doing business I've never had a confrontation like this, but once again he cut me off, got even closer, and said there was one with 40,000 miles down the road for $18000. Actually they were asking $20,000 as I had done my research, but once again, he wouldn't let me get two words out. He just dept repeating, louder and louder, keep talkin' Keep talkin'. Then, you won't sell me anything, what's the point?

I tried to get the words out a few more times but it was just like Dr. Evil shushing his son in the Austin Powers movie.

The guy was a nut case, I turned around and walked inside. The nut case and the rest of the family, who were dead silent the entire time promptly left. It probably made him feel great that he got me to back down and walk away on my own turf, but I wasn't escalating a situation.

Should've just pulled out the cellphone and dialed to local sheriff... especially if you are on a first name basis with your local LEOs.

Once you've asked them to leave, the persistant presence and aggressive behavior are easily considered harassment.

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I'm sure alot of you have tried to shop for cheap cars in the last few years and realized how hard it is to find decent ones.

Yep. And from my experience in December I could rant about a few effing car dealers. In fact if it weren't for one particular dealer I'd be of the opinion that they are all the ultimate lowlifes of all time.

Of course, logically I know that's not the case, but man, it's ridiculously cliche'd the way so many of them behave, at least around here.

- Peter.

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Of course, logically I know that's not the case..........

Logically, you're not that far off the mark.

They will wax and detail any POS they can find to make $1K on it under the lights. They don't even know the problems the vehicle actually has.