Heaven, Hell and the Devil - Page 19 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #**271** 06-27-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

I said that Roman Catholicism wasn't Christian.

Greeazer is relieved.

kerry · #**272** 06-27-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do with the fact that you hold that since their positions aren't orthodox, then they can't really be Christian because as you wrote earlier, the fact that a person considers him or herself a Christian is never grounds for them actually being a Christian. The only Christians are those who fit your definition of orthodoxy.

JamesDean · #**273** 06-27-2013, 12:51 PM

I've nothing to add to this thread really, I just wanted to say this has been a fascinating read. Mostly on topic, didn't divulge into petty personal attacks or anything like the usual left v right political thread (but those are entertaining to read as well!)

Carry On Gents!

martureo · #**274** 06-27-2013, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

It has to do with the fact that you hold that since their positions aren't orthodox, then they can't really be Christian because as you wrote earlier, the fact that a person considers him or herself a Christian is never grounds for them actually being a Christian. The only Christians are those who fit your definition of orthodoxy.

Your argument rests on your ignorance (not a jab) of the term heretic.

A heretic is someone who not only believes in heresy but continues to teach and identify themselves with such belief after being corrected.

Someone who grows up as a gnostic is not a heretic until they persist in such belief after being corrected. And in similar fashion a convert to a heretical system is not a heretic until one is corrected and persists.

Heretics are not Christians.

martureo · #**275** 06-27-2013, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Greeazer is relieved.

Greeazer might be a Christian, I really don't know nor do wish to make any statement either way until 1) it becomes and issue worth discussing 2) I know much more about what he believes now (which is almost nothing).

JamesDean · #**276** 06-27-2013, 01:01 PM

So question..Roman Catholics are not Christians?

Christian being one who believes/agree with the Nicene Creed?

Or am i confused?

martureo · #**277** 06-27-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

So question..Roman Catholics are not Christians?

Christian being one who believes/agree with the Nicene Creed?

Or am i confused?

Do you actually want to discuss the theology or are you just trying to get an argument going?

I'm not interested in a mud war at the moment.

kerry · #**278** 06-27-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Your argument rests on your ignorance (not a jab) of the term heretic.

A heretic is someone who not only believes in heresy but continues to teach and identify themselves with such belief after being corrected.

Someone who grows up as a gnostic is not a heretic until they persist in such belief after being corrected. And in similar fashion a convert to a heretical system is not a heretic until one is corrected and persists.

Heretics are not Christians.

There you go again practicing your particularly obnoxious skill of calling people who disagree with you ignorant.

After you have engaged in your most gracious practice of correctly all those people who disagree with you, and they continue to hold to their prior beliefs for whatever reason seems good to them, you claim them to be 'heretics' who cannot be labeled Christians. I prefer the much more reasonable position of called them Christians who happen to disagree with Martureo.

JamesDean · #**279** 06-27-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Do you actually want to discuss the theology or are you just trying to get an argument going?

I'm not interested in a mud war at the moment.

Genuine question. No intention of mud war. I ask because I had always thought the church I went to as a kid was "roman catholic" but I distinctly recall the reciting of the creed during mass. I didnt know its actual name until I looked it up.

martureo · #**280** 06-27-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

There you go again practicing your particularly obnoxious skill of calling people who disagree with you ignorant.

I cannot believe that you missed the "(not a jab)" part and are now accusing me of obnoxious.

The term was not used as a pejorative and I thought I made that clear.

Quote:

After you have engaged in your most gracious practice of correctly all those people who disagree with you, and they continue to hold to their prior beliefs for whatever reason seems good to them, you claim them to be 'heretics' who cannot be labeled Christians. I prefer the much more reasonable position of called them Christians who happen to disagree with Martureo.

Then you could be rightly called a heretic of truth. Since you prefer, even after correction, even after being called to truth, a falsehood.

martureo · #**281** 06-27-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Genuine question. No intention of mud war. I ask because I had always thought the church I went to as a kid was "roman catholic" but I distinctly recall the reciting of the creed during mass. I didnt know its actual name until I looked it up.

The statement was Roman Catholicism, not Roman Catholics was not Christian.

There are a number of issues which separate the RCC from orthodox Christianity. To name a few:

Marian dogmas (coredemptrix)
Council of Trent
Elevation of Tradition (fallible tradition at that) above the scripture
works righteousness

JamesDean · #**282** 06-27-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

The statement was Roman Catholicism, not Roman Catholics was not Christian.

There are a number of issues which separate the RCC from orthodox Christianity. To name a few:

Marian dogmas (coredemptrix)
Council of Trent
Elevation of Tradition (fallible tradition at that) above the scripture
works righteousness

So Roman Catholicism is not what a Roman Catholic believes/practices?

Sorry for my confusion. I'm not clear on terminology at all.

kerry · #**283** 06-27-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

I cannot believe that you missed the "(not a jab)" part and are now accusing me of obnoxious.

The term was not used as a pejorative and I thought I made that clear. Then you could be rightly called a heretic of truth. Since you prefer, even after correction, even after being called to truth, a falsehood.

I guess I am a heretic insofar as I hold that Martureo does not have the truth.

kerry · #**284** 06-27-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

So Roman Catholicism is not what a Roman Catholic believes/practices?

Sorry for my confusion. I'm not clear on terminology at all.

I believe that is what he is saying. A Roman Catholic may be a Christian if she fails to accept the orthodox views of Roman Catholicism.

JamesDean · #**285** 06-27-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

I believe that is what he is saying. A Roman Catholic may be a Christian if she fails to accept the orthodox views of Roman Catholicism.

but if she fails to accept the view of Roman Catholicism would she then not be a Roman Catholic?

Roman Catholics are not Christians?

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