and you are operating on the presupposition that he didn't. If his apostles were all literate and capable of writing, I am prepared to make the leap and believe that Jesus was also literate and probably wrote. Neither one of us has any real evidence either way, though my opinion is based on a little more logic.

you will find that if you read my previous comments, I have repeatedly clarified what I stated by hundreds of years later, and ill let you do that search.

Interesting, I worked next to and for people who adhered to the Church of Latter Day Saints for years myself, and also dealt with them on a daily basis, what of it? I don't pretend to be in a position to speak for them as you do apparently. Now you will be insulted for people you probably consider a form of heretic?
However, I can comment on my conviction that their religion is so preposterous that it makes the idea of you as a priest seem reasonable in comparison.

Ironically, Mormon's are some of the cleanest living, nicest people ive ever met. Its a shame they have built a religion on the scams of a con artist.

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Not familiar with that term?

'' Stroke '' in this conext, could mean any number of things. Anywhere from massage, pet, favour, build, expand, grow, etc., or any number of slang exspressions.

He clearly believes what he believes, which also includes that none of us know as much as he does, which is, for all intents and purposes, true. However, he hardly comes across as a humble servant of god with his rather snarky remarks.

Which is why I believe that discusing this stuff, outside of historical contex, is a fools errand and is simmply stroking the stroke master paster.

Why do you ask BTW?

I have absolutely NO doubt that Jesus walked on water, turned a handful of fish and a few loaves of bread into enougth food to feed 5,000. He healed numerous people, and the long list of miracles are absolutely true beyond any doubt. Why, because I fully believe He is the Son of God. Now, if you want to say that the exact, precise language passed down from 50 to 2,000 years ago could have been changed to some degree, I am not in a position to argue that point, even if that includes a silly point such as the word "uh" or "hmm" was somewhere ommitted or added. However, in regards to the main story, the main points, the main demonstrations, et cet., it is accurately captured in the Bible. If you do not want to believe, then that is your free choice. No one is controlling you or forcing you to do anything. How you make that jump in "logic" is truly beyond me.

you should be the priest, not martureo.
You believe what you believe because you believe it, and I can respect your point of view. I don't see a post drowning in arrogance or nitpicking of other peoples beliefs.

You believe these things of Jesus because you believe in god and the accuracy of the bible.
I believe jesus was a man, that the bible is a book of stories, and that no god exists but the one that we make for ourselves.

Both opinions can coexist if your religion and my atheism remain personal beliefs we each hold, and neither tries to force their beliefs on others.

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

And no one in the universe can argue with anything you said. No one in the universe should find offense at it either. Now, I truly believe in the Day of Judgment. Assuming I am correct in my beliefs, then folks in the atheist camp will have some serious issues. Does that mean they are absolutely guaranteed to go to hell? Most likely if you believe what I believe which is main stream R.C., but that does not mean that God will not grant them the Grace neccessary at the last minute so to speak for salvation. Jesus was super clear on the "Judge not lest ye be Judged" position. If I am wrong in my beliefs, and assuming there is no God, then so be it ... we humans live and die like insects, nothing more or less. However, this whole commentary on how Christians are forcing their views on others is total nonsense. Does the average Christian want non-believers to be converted? Absolutely! Why? because it it our duty according to the teachings of Christ, we believe in an afterlife, and we have a firm conviction of the bad things to come for those not Saved. No strong arm tactics either. However, when folks comment in an ignorant fashion or attack the Faith, then I suspect the gloves will come off to some degree, like that or not.

Martureo is a missionary to the Mormons so it's more than just a 'want'. He takes active steps to draw people out of Mormonism and too his version of Christianity. He could have been a missionary to the Roman Catholics and then Greazzer would have been the object of his efforts. Martureo thinks his version of Christianity is true and heretical versions false. It's not just a matter of belief for him.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I was born and raised a R.C., so I doubt I would have been an object of his efforts if he was a Catholic missionary. Likewise for the Mormon missionary as I am comfortable, happy, and confident in my Faith just as any Mormon is likewise comfortable, happy, and confident in their Faith.

I was RC but not for years now, or about the time I was old enough to run faster than my father.

I view death as being similar to being put under for an operation. I can't say I remembered anything from the time I counted to three until I woke up. No dreams, no pain, no anything. If that's what death is like, then there isn't much to fear. Not that I'm in any hurry to get there......

There's a thousand ways to die ( they say ) any one of them could be very painful which is probably more what people fear. Is there an after life? Logic would tell me no. Think of all the major religions that are no longer around that also believed in an after life - it's hardly a new idea. Their mummys are on display in museums around the world. I guess since they were pagan they had it coming to them........

In time, if the human race is around long enough, every religion ever known will be replaced with something more convincing and more powerful by those more convincing and powerful, just as it has in the past, always has been, and always will be.

I think the "fear of dealth" is more akin to the denial of death. And yes, I borrow heavily from the book by Becker and this is a simple copy-cat here. However, from a Christian perspective, it looks to me that if one does not believe in God, then what remains is rather dusty, dirty, and just sand, hence the fear of death makes perfect sense. Plug in the concept of God, then we transcend our inevitable return to dust. Is that "a" reason to believe in God? Probably not ... but it help explains the fear so to speak. And, I hope you reflect and return to the Church, and it does not absolutely have to be a R.C. Church, but any Church that worships Jesus.

I disagree with this. Marty knows what he knows very well. I do not think he knows as much as he thinks he does (he has a very narrowly focus pool of knowledge) as opposed to Kerry who I think has a very broad based pool of knowledge (seems to know quite a bit about Christianity, Islam and other beliefs). Kerry and other seem to approach the issue from a logical and educational stand point. Marty has a holier than though condescending attitude that says he knows all and if you do not agree with his POV you are wrong and ignorant.

Arguing with Kerry is an exchange (at least that has been my experience) arguing with Marty is like arguing with a brick wall. I stopped a while back and reading some of his posts here reminded me why.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

If by "No strong arm tactics" you mean that a gun was not put to your head in a literal sense, you are right. However, I would challenge the idea that it wasn't done via pushing for laws regulating others to their way of thinking WHEN IT DOESN'T affect them

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Lol I knew what stroke meant I just wasnt sure how you meant it but thank you for explaining it. My questions to martureo were after clarification on things said on earlier pages and what I remembered from mass year ago

I was raised roman catholic but am not a believer/follower anymore.

Personally, what I took away from the church was that we should be good to those around us and treat them well.

__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k

I think the exchange started out well but devolved into arguing. I enjoyed reading both sides.

__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k

Maybe it is the fear of death or the end of existence that prompts us to invent religion. To give us hope that it isn't over, to give meaning to what you are doing, etc, etc. Much like imagining there is a warm fire waiting for you after the long trudge in the cold or there is a reason for the struggle like going to college, etc, etc. Doesn't mean there is a fire waiting for you or there is a good job after graduation.

I mean, what is the real point of heaven, besides the existence not ending?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I view death as being similar to being put under for an operation.

Here's another view/ analogy---
What we call "death" may be simply birth into another existence. Think of the parallels:
The one about to be "born" doesn't desire it. The fetus is quite happy in his home. he is warm, fed, and generally comfortable. What could possibly be better?
Yet after the pain of the birth process, the individual grows beyond what it could have imagined. Seen worlds not imagined. Had experiences, loves, learned--so many things that exceeded the mind of the fetus.
If death is like that--then the next world may be glorious, indeed.

__________________
1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags