Heaven, Hell and the Devil - Page 15 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #**211** 06-26-2013, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

I have never seen anyone's arm twisted. That is why we have free will and personal choice. Because there are consequences for one's behavior, and someone might not like those consequences, they lash out and blame God and accuse Him of being a strong armed thug.

He's now showing his presence with a show of force so to speak. Miracles are God's way of remaining anonymous.

I thought that Paul was once Saul who saw things differently till he was blinded? Isn't the presence of a strong arm god mentioned in the OT?

Now what? Deities Anonymous? Seriously? How about maybe it is coincidence that you can spin either way.

aklim · #**212** 06-26-2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

Proof and religion is like getting pregnant without sex.

Artificial insemination?

greazzer · #**213** 06-26-2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

its always surprising when you come across people who believe things completely different from what you do. We all have a tendency to vilify people we don't understand, or have opinions where we cannot follow their logic.
You seem to see any discussion of the concept of god or jesus in the abstract as people trying to show how smart they are and so on.

we do not have a true separation, though certainly better than many countries. Adding "under god" to the pledge or allegiance is a perfect example of religious special interests being rewarded despite separation of church and state.

as a religious man, how are you in a position to state what an athiest believes and does not believe, or why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

[/I]

It's a definitional thing ... by definition, an atheist does not believe in God as he or she holds there is no God. And, it is a total rejection, so to speak. Therefore, I can say if someone states that they do not believe in God (or any god to use other's wording), they probably fall into the atheist camp.

As for the multi-quote deal, where in the corner is there a button? I just failed multi-quote 101 again ...

JB3 · #**214** 06-26-2013, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

It's a definitional thing ... by definition, an atheist does not believe in God as he or she holds there is no God. And, it is a total rejection, so to speak. Therefore, I can say if someone states that they do not believe in God (or any god to use other's wording), they probably fall into the atheist camp.

As for the multi-quote deal, where in the corner is there a button? I just failed multi-quote 101 again ...

on top of the typing box when you are in the "reply to thread" window, there are two lines of icons. One has they type script, size, color, ect, and the lower one has bold, italic, underline. On that lower one, all the way to the right there is a little cream colored word balloon, right before the # sign. Thats the multiquote icon

greazzer · #**215** 06-26-2013, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

its always surprising when you come across people who believe things completely different from what you do. We all have a tendency to vilify people we don't understand, or have opinions where we cannot follow their logic.
You seem to see any discussion of the concept of god or jesus in the abstract as people trying to show how smart they are and so on.

we do not have a true separation, though certainly better than many countries. Adding "under god" to the pledge or allegiance is a perfect example of religious special interests being rewarded despite separation of church and state.

You got to be kidding me on this one too. If the author of the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem used the words God, et cet., in that person's work, and the US at that time adopted those works, are you suggesting we are now supposed to either get a new pledge or new anthem or modify what we got? How silly is that. And, how is this forcing one's religion on another person? Should we now say because a small, special interest group does not believe God the following ... one nation not-under-God ... or, simply outlaw the pledge or anthem ?

as a religious man, how are you in a position to state what an athiest believes and does not believe, or why?

[/I]

So, where's the multi quote button again ?

Mr.Kenny · #**216** 06-26-2013, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

The imagery used of the place of those who are damned contradicts your assertions. While the word "hell" doesn't exist, nor does any other English word. So I fail to see your point as anything other than partially informed shock value. Does it matter?You've got a rather anachronistic view of the ancient world. It'd be great if you'd recognize that and try to correct it.

Writing was not as it was today, not everyone could write. Writing materials were also expensive.
The Jewish culture that Jesus came from, as did his disciples was a very oral culture. Writing wasn't always necessary.
It's much easier to tell people your message instead of sitting down with a scribe and writing it out.
Christianity was an illegal religion, getting a professional scribe to write things out and copy them for you was usually not an option.

Is that a problem? Is it a requisite of claiming to be a deity to write? Yes.No.

Please try to avoid the shotgun approach. It usually puts you in the same category as 7th graders and the weak minded.

My weak minded 7th grader shotgun approach is really just one rhetorical question.
How could Jesus be known to all humanity throughout prehistory and modern history as their "personal Savior" if he & his followers was such a poor communicator of his message? Honestly; No one can seem to agree on the message today. Or is it likely Jesus story didn't happen exactly as reported & embellished/fabricated many years later?

aklim · #**217** 06-26-2013, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

It's a definitional thing ... by definition, an atheist does not believe in God as he or she holds there is no God. And, it is a total rejection, so to speak. Therefore, I can say if someone states that they do not believe in God (or any god to use other's wording), they probably fall into the atheist camp.

As for the multi-quote deal, where in the corner is there a button? I just failed multi-quote 101 again ...

If I don't drink the Kool Aid I am an atheist? I would say am I'm more agnostic than athiest since I don't believe until it can pass a battery of tests and proof.

aklim · #**218** 06-26-2013, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kenny

My weak minded 7th grader shotgun approach is really just one rhetorical question.
How could Jesus be known to all humanity throughout prehistory and modern history as their "personal Savior" if he & his followers was such a poor communicator of his message? Honestly; No one can seem to agree on the message today. Or is it likely Jesus story didn't happen exactly as reported & embellished/fabricated many years later?

Maybe the supposed dying thing impressed people enough? Even if he did get to die, did he give his life like we would? If you really know you will be resurrected, is it really a sacrifice?

martureo · #**219** 06-26-2013, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

why did you not underline "several hundred years"? You did not prove me wrong, you actually reinforced what I said.

I proved you wrong quite well. You've just changed what you said. Your earlier post makes it quite apparent to anyone that you were proven wrong.

Quote:

The difference is not really an issue of wrong or right, its in what we consider a religious figure of extreme importance. I gather you figure he was a religious figure of extreme importance because he was Jesus Christ.

You made a claim, now you're trying to weasel your way out of being corrected by saying that your claim cannot be falsified.

Quote:

I figure the same when Christianity became enormously widespread, and as I said, that was not until several hundred years later.

Except that's not what you said.

Quote:

Id also call a couple hundred years for a man to become a god about right as well, and have it believed widespread.

So how many times do you have to be shown that you are 100% wrong when you say this? HOW MANY TIMES!?

Quote:

That his immediate followers called him a god and you can refer to stuff they wrote means exactly that, his immediate followers called him a god.

I think it'd be better for my blood pressure and my brain cells if I just left you and your ignorance alone. I tried to correct you nicely, then I tried to keep you on topic, now I'm just frustrated because you can't even recognize your own words communicated something different than you meant.

Learn to write. Learn your history. Get the facts straight. Then I'll consider entering this type of conversation with you again. As for now, goodbye.

martureo · #**220** 06-26-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kenny

My weak minded 7th grader shotgun approach is really just one rhetorical question.
How could Jesus be known to all humanity throughout prehistory and modern history as their "personal Savior" if he & his followers was such a poor communicator of his message? Honestly; No one can seem to agree on the message today. Or is it likely Jesus story didn't happen exactly as reported & embellished/fabricated many years later?

Another shotgun. Nope, it wasn't an isolated incident.

I'm not going to bother with you and your shotgun approach.

kerry · #**221** 06-26-2013, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Learn to write. Learn your history. Get the facts straight. Then I'll consider entering this type of conversation with you again. As for now, goodbye.

Which, being translated, means: If you don't see history with the same theological glasses that I do, I'll avoid talking to you.

greazzer · #**222** 06-26-2013, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Which, being translated, means: If you don't see history with the same theological glasses that I do, I'll avoid talking to you.

Wowza again ...or, maybe it means exactly what it says, and that words, history, and so forth actually have defined meanings.

kerry · #**223** 06-26-2013, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

Wowza again ...or, maybe it means exactly what it says, and that words, history, and so forth actually have defined meanings.

Please provide us with the defined meaning of history.

JB3 · #**224** 06-27-2013, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

So, where's the multi quote button again ?

"Under god" was added in 1954. Specifically to satisfy religious special interest groups. The pledge has been modified considerably from the original meaning. Yes, I do believe all mention of god should be removed from anything that has to do with the state. Id remove "in god we trust". From coinage as well

Botnst · #**225** 06-27-2013, 06:35 AM

The pledge is just wrong, god or no god. Rote repetition will not a patriot make.

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