The point here is that we do not know what happened.
The verdict was the only one possible given the complete lack of evidence.
All we are really left with is our assumptions of whether or not the Zim was telling the truth.
Either way, no one can say with certainty that any of what we heard is truth or fiction.

For me, he's either lying or a dumbass. Or maybe both.
Certainly the sequence of events that he put into motion ended up with a dead kid, and that is something that he will have to live with for the rest of his life.

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

OH, and ? Was she not the key to the prosecutions strategy? Are you discounting what she has said and deeming it to be non reliable and suspect in nature? Or are you saying that since she was not there that her testimony should not have been admissible? Please help me understand what point you are trying to make.

From wikipedia.

Recordings of eight calls to the police made on the night of the shooting were released by the Sanford police on March 17, 2012.

A witness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911". He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

I get the impression that for many posters, that this defendant is guilty until someone can convince them otherwise....which is impossible as there's usually no convincing anyone on the OD forum

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With best regards

Al

No idea about the admissibility. Just saying that if she was not there she did not witness anything and she has no idea what really happened.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

So no one knows what happened leading up to the fight or who started it? Did John testify at the trial?

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

If I had a son he would shoot like George.

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1984 300TD 1981 240D

That's a fairly insensitive remark – George’s no hero. He gunned down an unarmed teen; partly due to his own stupidity. Hopefully you'll teach your son more sense than George. If not, make sure you're well connected; preferably a retired judge.

__________________
"Time's never wasted when you're wasted all the time"

On some level, it's undeniable that Z started the fight. He started the confrontation, with animosity and judgment in his heart. The sequence of events that led to TM likely as not being on top of him dealing out an ass whooping will never be agreed on. But I'm sorry, the sucker punch notion is far-fetched.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

You gonna keep going with this?

Trayvon was not in a car, didn't have loud music, was walking quietly through a gated community. Z was a young Hispanic man and neighborhood watch.

Carload of black kids with loud music. Old white guy.

Yeah, now I see the connection.

Apparently this subject is still hot with many folks. I'm proud of us for not getting it closed for childish behavior. I have learned a few things from following links provided, thanks guys! To me the facts still look very sketchy and the verdict not so convincing and it probably will remain so. It will be interesting to see if there is any civil actions to come.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

It IS deniable that Z started the fight. Watch: I deny Z started the fight.

M's girlfriend claims M claimed via phone conversation that somebody was following him.

No witnesses. Anyway, following is not illegal.

Z claims M started the fight.

No witnesses.

They get in a tussle.

Eyewitness claims M was on top beating Z and Z was screaming for help.

Z claims he feared for his life (though doesn't take witness stand), pulls gun and shoots T. No evidence to the contrary.

Forensic story supports Z's story and undermine's Prosecution's version. State's pathologist is ineffective at describing wounds and possible circumstances. Defense' pathologist literally wrote the book on pathology and clearly describes the defense scenario.

Jury heard it all, drawn-out over 3 weeks of excruciatingly detailed testimony and argument by professional sophists.

Vote not guilty.

End of story (not).

I would go with 'She was not a reliable witness'.
Obviously it was admissible testimony, as it was allowed by the judge and the defense.

It might seem as if you think that anyone who holds the opinion that the Zim's story doesn't hold water must therefore believe everything presented by the prosecution....
That is not the case.
Buying the complete bill of goods from either side...
I wouldn't... I don't think either side presented a factual and unbiased argument.

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

point blank, with his back on the ground, as a last ditch effort to keep the kid he started 5hit with to keep from killing him?

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

No one who hasn't already connected those dots will ever buy this, much more reasonable scenario.
As if none of these folks remember telling a whopper to get out of trouble when they were a kid....
Even though we have breathless, cursing, armed Zim on the phone, frantically trying to intercept TM with his skittles and iced tea while walking back from the store....
Some people will always choose to believe that TM instigated it.

I believe it is gun bias.
Think if the Zim had shanked him, there would be a lot less people believing his story.
If you notice, many of his staunchest supporters are also the extremely vocal 2A crowd...
Any failure to believe the Zim could backfire into another gun grab.... this I believe is at the heart of many who persecute TM and glorify the Zim...

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif