I was thinking the same thing.

And in response to another thread: The Germans are always bad and the Allies are always good? I wonder why that is?

Here's an experiment: Go to a studio and pitch a film where it is the other way around. Then wait for the phone to ring.

Get back with us on how well that goes.

Worked good for Leni Riefenstahl dint it?

\Triumph des Willens (Triumph Of The Will) - Leni Riefenstahl [1935] - YouTube

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Your assumption is that he is trying to find the "truth" instead of pushing a leftist agenda. Pushing a leftist agenda is so politically correct in Germany, and in particular German academia, that I'm quite sure he wouldn't even think he's doing that.

And of course that would be the accepted wisdom without any critical though in much of the west. Sorry. I just don't buy the simplistic view of history it creates.

This doesn't mean the Germans weren't one of the principal aggressors in the conflict, nor that they shouldn't shoulder most of the blame. But frankly "truth" deserves better than an agenda, no matter what side of the ideological divide said agenda originates on.

- Peter.

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What "agenda" and have you watched the film?

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Let me know when your truth-o-meter pegs. I'm anxious to meet the man who knows truth when it is presented to him.

I'm well aware that truth doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean you can't strive finding it.

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1979 Black on Black, 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE (vanished by the hands of a girlfriend), 1992 300CE (Rescue).

That's why I like looking for facts and leave pursuit of truth to priests and politicians.

I couldn't agree more. They leave out guys like Von Luck for a small example. He was just a normal solider and a nice guy who chose the military as a career before the political winds in Germany started blowing. He had some very good friends in the UK and the French underground during and after the war, and Hollywood or the leftist idiots in Germany now would demonize him.

I think the Germans are doing themselves a disservice going down this road. They should work harder to properly understand those times, when things are glossed over or painted as "evil" they become more easy to repeat. The left wing is firmly in control, and the conservatives don't have a say.

You have to remember their were millions of Germans in uniform, Hollywood likes to paint with a wide brush.

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Much as we presently do with Islam. And they, us.

Was thinking about that after reading the last post. When are we going too glorify Osama Bin Laden as a friendly but misunderstood brilliant commander with friends in Europe and the US who is vilified by left wingers and Hollywood?

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1979 Black on Black, 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE (vanished by the hands of a girlfriend), 1992 300CE (Rescue).

That is a nonsensical comparison. OBL and the AQ mob are not people who took over a nation state and foisted their philosophy on it thru various nefarious means. They are simply a group of nauseating ideologues festering in whatever location will have them, which as it turns out is quite a few given that the philosophy under which they hide is widespread thru many nation states, and failed states, and provides excellent succor for them.

As for the Germans. With the exception of the death camps targeting mostly a specific race, the atrocities they committed were not unique, except in their grotesque efficiency, either in Europe or elsewhere at that time. In fact I doubt there was a meaningful difference between the Germans and Russians. I'm not talking about Einsatzgruppen or KL personnel here, I'm talking about front line combat troops.

Happily for the western allies their troops were not particularly heavily involved in the war in Europe and as victors get to write the history their actions can be easily laundered. The real ugly stuff went on in the east. And in terms of pure atrocities if you think you can distinguish meaningfully between the Russians and Germans I'd say you have a "Hollywood" view of History all right.

This doesn't excuse what the Germans did. I'm merely pointing out that hearing that the regular German army committed atrocities is not news. And claiming that there was no difference between many of them and the hard core Nazi apparatus is simplistic to the point of worthlessness, as far as historical truth is concerned.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Leni made propaganda. I get offers to do this all the time and I would rather sweep floors for a living. There is good money to made in propaganda, though, if you are good at it.

And Leni never had to pitch anything. Hitler came to her with wads of cash in hand and an offer of an extended all expenses paid vacation in a nearby camp if she said no.

Studio heads like to think they have that kind of power, but I have yet to meet one that really does.

Yeah. Those bums in Hollywood would never make a film about some Jew loving Nazi like Oskar Schindler.

Oh, wait a minute......

Both the Waffen SS and the Wehrmacht fought in combat.

There are many documented instances of wartime combat atrocities by the SS, but far fewer relative to overall personnel, in combat. by Wehrmacht troops.

Especially on the Eastern front.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

One of the lessons I take from the power of the Nazis is a fear of ANY governing ELITE who know what's best and uses power to force that on everyone.
I have Speer's memoir on my bookshelf. Its a pretty good self-analysis of an "educated" man from a good family and the almost hypnotic power of Hitler and the Nazis. It a good cautionary tale.

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