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  #31  
Old 05-09-2014, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
I don't know. I've personally witnessed these types of cases and in the cases I've seen, the plaintiff was shot down in flames. It comes down to accepting a benefit and the terms and conditions of accepting the benefit.

think of it something kinda like this:

By your mere presence and attendance at public school, you waived your right to do as you like. The rules say ALL ATTENDEES must stand and say the pledge, etc etc.

I'm not saying this is exactly how the judge has or will put it, but I've seen similar cases backfire for the plaintiff on these types of issues....
I am a public school educated moron, with the exception of a few years at a couple of parochial and private schools. I have spent 30+ years educating hundreds of morons in public schools. In addition, I have and still consult on moronic curriculum for many public schools. I have seen and advised on countless student handbooks. I have never, ever seen one that required individuals to say the pledge of allegiance. Most schools require that it be said as their respective states usually require it, but the requirement is a group rule, not an individual rule.
In general, it has been my experience that a student who quietly doesn't say the pledge and is not disruptive is not only not disciplined, he's not even noticed.
In short, this moronic educator of morons thinks you're full of shlt on this one.

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  #32  
Old 05-09-2014, 07:23 PM
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Suddenly, While Reading This Thread, I Thought of Dennis Wolfsberg
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  #33  
Old 05-09-2014, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
This should be an interesting lesson of how certain segments of our population don't have equal rights under the Constitution, in this case, the free speech rights of students, which is substantially limited.
It seems that people can and do waive their rights, whether constitutional or not, via various contracts entered into; oral, written, adhesion, etc.

"Equity Law is brutal, but we are merely enforcing contracts."
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  #34  
Old 05-09-2014, 11:09 PM
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Can minors enter into contracts?
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  #35  
Old 05-10-2014, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
It seems that people can and do waive their rights, whether constitutional or not, via various contracts entered into; oral, written, adhesion, etc.

"Equity Law is brutal, but we are merely enforcing contracts."
Blah blah blah. This kid got spotted doing what he'd been doing for some time by some over-zealous dipshlt who chose to make an issue out of it. I hope he sues the pants off his district and bet he wins.
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  #36  
Old 05-10-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Can minors enter into contracts?

Under Parens patriae doctrine ("State" as parent), the "State" may be acting as the child's agent and thus may have the power to enter into contracts (oral, written, adhesion, etc.) on behalf of the child.

Parens patriae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the same style of doctrine the Nazis used in regards to newborn children. The moment the child took his/her first breath, he/she literally became wards and property of the German state.

The Nazis set up reproduction camps filled with young girls who were impregnated by German men; the girls were literally baby machines (proletarii) whose sole purpose was to produce children for the fascist State.

Proletariat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

from the link above:

"As defined in the Constitution of the Roman Republic, the proletarii constituted a social class of Roman citizens owning little or no property.

The origin of the name is presumably linked with the census, which Roman authorities conducted every five years to produce a register of citizens and their property from which their military duties and voting privileges could be determined. For citizens with property valued 11,000 asses or less, which was below the lowest census for military service, their children—proles (from Latin proli, "offspring")—were listed instead of their property; hence, the name proletarius, "the one who produces offspring". The only contribution of a proletarius to the Roman society was seen in his ability to raise children, the future Roman citizens who can colonize new territories conquered by the Roman Republic and later by the Roman Empire. The citizens who had no property of significance were called capite censi because they were "persons registered not as to their property...but simply as to their existence as living individuals, primarily as heads (caput) of a family.""[2][3]

Last edited by HuskyMan; 05-10-2014 at 09:04 AM.
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  #37  
Old 05-10-2014, 09:20 AM
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So the State is entering into a contract with the State?
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  #38  
Old 05-10-2014, 09:31 AM
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So the State is entering into a contract with the State?
Some of these ideas ARE difficult to wrap one's mind around, no question about it. We ARE talking about legal principals and doctrines created and born out of ancient Rome.

This. Some of the doctrines and principles emanating from ancient Rome may be considered by some as illogical (a nice way of saying the nuts and the crazies are running the asylum).

BTW, the more one studies these issues, the more one scratches one's head in disbelief.
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  #39  
Old 05-10-2014, 10:58 AM
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Leave the kid alone! Discipline the "educator" who made an issue of it.
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  #40  
Old 05-10-2014, 11:11 AM
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But then they send me away to teach me how to be sensible,
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  #41  
Old 05-10-2014, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
Under Parens patriae doctrine ("State" as parent), the "State" may be acting as the child's agent and thus may have the power to enter into contracts (oral, written, adhesion, etc.) on behalf of the child.

Parens patriae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the same style of doctrine the Nazis used in regards to newborn children. The moment the child took his/her first breath, he/she literally became wards and property of the German state.

The Nazis set up reproduction camps filled with young girls who were impregnated by German men; the girls were literally baby machines (proletarii) whose sole purpose was to produce children for the fascist State.

Proletariat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

from the link above:

"As defined in the Constitution of the Roman Republic, the proletarii constituted a social class of Roman citizens owning little or no property.

The origin of the name is presumably linked with the census, which Roman authorities conducted every five years to produce a register of citizens and their property from which their military duties and voting privileges could be determined. For citizens with property valued 11,000 asses or less, which was below the lowest census for military service, their children—proles (from Latin proli, "offspring")—were listed instead of their property; hence, the name proletarius, "the one who produces offspring". The only contribution of a proletarius to the Roman society was seen in his ability to raise children, the future Roman citizens who can colonize new territories conquered by the Roman Republic and later by the Roman Empire. The citizens who had no property of significance were called capite censi because they were "persons registered not as to their property...but simply as to their existence as living individuals, primarily as heads (caput) of a family.""[2][3]
But this took place in Texas. As someone who has entered into Contracts with Minors I leave this to the Lawyers, but the Texas Penal Code is very strict about Contracts with minors. My experience is limited to film/entertainment work, but I don't know of anyone who could legally enter into a contract with a minor in Texas.

Oral contracts are not enforceable in Texas by any Court. As the old saying goes, Oral contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.

Some school districts have tried to bring down the law on students in Texas for not showing up. These have always been tossed out. Some cities have laws that put the onus on the Parent; but these are rarely enforced since no one seems to know if they are legal.

I can understand the appeal to Conservatives of having control over every aspect of the lives of others, but modern Texas was founded with the individual at the core of its' being. The current administration has strayed from this in many ways, but it has still not yet reached the point where a School Administrator can force you to think as they wish.

TEX PB. CODE ANN. § 903 : Texas Statutes - Section 903: APPROVAL OF CERTAIN CONTRACTS OF MINORS; NOT VOIDABLE
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  #42  
Old 05-10-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
I just stood there and day dreamed. When I realized that the "liberty and justice for all" was not true I did not see a point in reciting it.
Never was fond of reciting the pledge. Felt weird to me.
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  #43  
Old 05-10-2014, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Never was fond of reciting the pledge. Felt weird to me.
There's only one other country on the planet that requires a routine pledge of allegiance so your weird feeling is probably an accurate response.
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  #44  
Old 05-11-2014, 02:08 AM
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Only one other? Whoa. Lemme guess, either North Korea or China.
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  #45  
Old 05-11-2014, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
There's only one other country on the planet that requires a routine pledge of allegiance so your weird feeling is probably an accurate response.
It's done in public schools throughout Mexico on a daily basis. What other country were you thinking of?

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