Originally Posted by davidmash

I agree with this. Gun possession is here to stay. I think we could have real regulations which would not interfere with the right to own guns but there is no will to do so and the gun lobbies are far to strong.

So we will just go through life with about 30,000 gun related deaths every year as acceptable. It is what it is.

Originally Posted by spdrun

Pfffffft. Compared to some other posters here, she's been practically a saint.

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Look up what the Gun Regulations were before President Kennedy was assanited and look at the Gun regulations as time progressed.

Then look at the Violent Crime statistics compare now to before Kennedy as assanitated.

Originally Posted by greazzer

Here are some numbers from 2010, not sure of their accuracy but they are probably pretty close to reality:

31,672 firearm related deaths in 2010

Out of that, 61.2% are suicides, so around 19,383. Pretty sure if someone wants to off themself, they will find a way. I think eating a handful of pills and going to sleep is a lot easier than eating a bullet.

So, that knocks us down to 35% which are characterized as "homocides" or 11,085 which are not accidents, et cet.

The homocide rates by race show that black homocide rates are around 15.34%, which is more than 3x that of caucasions or asians. Rate of black gun homicides (this was the leading cause of death for blacks aged 15 to 29).

If we exclude gang members shooting other gang members, which is a smidgen over 80% of the gun violence, exclude cops blasting criminals (assume the shooting is legitimate since the sharp shooters will always bring out the handful of cases of bad cops as the "ah-ha moment"), exclude citizens defending themselves (avoid the Zimmerman-Martin debate), how many murders are there again? So, by my ciphering, that drives the effective number down to around 2,150-ish, give or take for a country of 300 million (using approximate numbers from 2010).

Now, take that number and compare it to the number of lives and property protected through the 2nd Amendment.

See, all those social scientists out there start to hate statistics when it runs counter to the social progressive agenda.

So, you want to change the Consitution based upon those numbers? Really ? Please tell me when the main stream media really broke down the numbers and pointed out the reality of "gun violence". We ALL know that gang members will follow gun statutes. Don't they?

When you throw out the 30K number, it sounds horrible, ... until you spend a few moments looking behind that number and the hype. Is 2K too many? OF COURSE, but how many folks defend their lives, family lives, and their property through the 2nd Amendment? I bet it's a smidgen over 2K folks.

Originally Posted by TheDon

I wish we could form militias and not have them chock full of white supremacists or the "gun nut" type of people.
Just a organized group of citizens that can assist the police and govt in times of crisis

Originally Posted by Dudesky

Its not a fear.....why do gov't register ham radios, guns,doctors, aircraft mechs, other professionals and the like?

Take your guns, shut down your voice or pirate your skills.

Originally Posted by Idle

I don't know about other states, but the reason Texas and Oklahoma started regulating professions was to tax them.

Many years ago a friend of mine was whining about needed to pay his professional tax to Texas of $5,000. I asked him what he got for his money and he said the right to practice law.

The theory goes that the state needs to keep the pretenders out of the state and that means someone has to regulate them. Those people need to be paid, and the professional tax is where the money comes from to pay them.

Anyway..... That's the theory. I don't know what the reality is in that if the state makes money on the deal or loses it.

Originally Posted by tbomachines

If they make registering foil hats mandatory, half this forum is ****ed.


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Originally Posted by Benzasaurus

I'm really curious about these issues because I lived in England for 10 years and quite liked living in a place where very few people had guns, even most police didn't carry a firearm into most situations. Britain still has violent crime, I'm not saying that's not the case, but it was an interesting situation to be in.

Anyway, it seems to me that in the US we can't unring that bell even if people wanted to. So I'm curious about what responsible gun owners think of the gun climate and what they would want to see change so they also felt safer. It seems like changes would have to be agreeable to or prompted by responsible gun owners in the first place, rather than imposed on them by non-gun owners.

I would also be for regular renewals or requalifications and more stringent background checks/no sales without full paperwork, license, etc.

As for guns themselves, is there a good way to keep them out of the hands of felons, for example? I wonder what the jail time is for illegally owning a gun.

And, just to settle this, I call you Larry because others do and often it's the most charitable thing I can bring myself to call you. I will call you A&R from now on. And I'm done with this particular sub-discussion in the thread, so don't expect any more from me on this topic.

Originally Posted by Diesel911

There is the problem. The News Media does not report them and because a Person prtecting themslevse or their legally owned Property is not a Crime that info never gets into the Statistics.

This has been spoken of before. Traffic accident deaths and maiming clearly out number Homicides. Yet no one would dare try to ban Cars or private transportation just to save lives."

Actually, the 2,150 number is much, much more troublesome for the crowd who want to reinterpet the 2nd A., and disarm the populace. Take the hotly debated Zimmeran case. That would be listed as a homocide in the 2,150 figure (assuming it occured in 2010). Highly contested so let's leave that one out--too many distractors. Now, take the various cases in that 2,150 number where folks are successfully prosecuted for defending their homes or property or lives. They end up with a manslaughter conviction, and around 1 year in jail or less. Not a murder but a homocide. They take plea deals to avoid the risk of trial or they get convicted of LIOs. I suspect those individuals drive the number down to 1,500-ish. The real problem is taking the 2,150 number and actually interpeting that figure. Out of that number, I am guessing there's around 400-500 "senseless" murders a year. I need to track down the 2010 figures and the entire report and see how the numbers are really dissected. I am guessing the administration and other administrations which want to rob Americans of their guns go to great lengths to hide the details.

So, how would Piers Morgan from CNN fame sound on national TV with his silly rants if he said there are around 400-500 senseless murders in America so we need to violate the 2nd Amendment? By the way, that's about the same number of folks who get killed with a hammer or club. See, Piers does sound silly afterall.

Originally Posted by TheDon

I wish we could form militias and not have them chock full of white supremacists or the "gun nut" type of people.
Just a organized group of citizens that can assist the police and govt in times of crisis

Originally Posted by Diesel911

There is the problem. The News Media does not report them and because a Person prtecting themslevse or their legally owned Property is not a Crime that info never gets into the Statistics.

This has been spoken of before. Traffic accident deaths and maiming clearly out number Homicides. Yet no one would dare try to ban Cars or private transportation just to save lives. Other

Just like with Guns now People are need to Pass a Test, they get a License to prove the Passed the Test and the Vehicle just like a Gun is registered. But, it is the idiot behind the Wheel or the Trigger that determines how safe Guns or Cars are.

Only the Individuals active will to Obey the Law and prevent accidents keeps them from breaking the Law.

In order to save lives I propose that in 10 Years all Automobiles should be banned and everyone who wants to drive a privately owned Vehicle has to buy a Moped.
You say ridicules but you won't say it would not work at saving untold Traffic Accident Deaths. And, think of Bank Robbers trying to get away from Police in Cars on their Mopeds.