Has mb's prestige kinda suffered since they merged wih chrysler? I know we are all mb enthusiasts here and we drive benzes for other reasons other than the prestige of the three pointed star. You must admit though that the prestige can help with resale value and overall panache of the car. I also believe that the quality problems of the ml has tarnished the brand as well.

It has to car enthusiasts it seems or people who know cars in general. However I think the general public still sees a new ML-truck as.. "oohhh nice!!! wow!, etc.. it's a Benz"

that's what it seems at least...
most people give me that "wow" treatment (especially girls) when I tell them I drive a Benz.... until I tell 'em that it's 18 yrs old then everything changes...

yeah, my sample is too limited. However I really think that MB has expanded its image to include a broader range of people that's for sure..

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2008 BMW 335i Coupe

Mercedes has devolved into "just another car."

Their legendary durability has evaporated as more and more electronics flood into each design...electronics which can't be serviced or replaced without dealer involvement...and GREAT expense. Also think aside from the star (which seems stuck on most models as an afterthought) the cars now look like most other modern cars on the highway. Still think the W123 body (and some of the larger versions) still has "classic" lines that are simple and don't "date" the car. In fact, many models built SINCE the W123's look more out of style than the chronologically older cars.

Have always thought Mercedes-Benzes fell into two categories..."smart" peoples cars, and rich peoples cars. Don't think anything built recently offers much for the "smart" group. Mercedes has finally begun to build "disposable" cars.

In the US MB is widely regarded as a "rich persons" car. Although I have never been to Europe, I am sure many at this site have and will share that in Europe, they are like Chevy or Ford is here, many Mercedes Taxi's, cop cars, delivery trucks, what have you-in short they are run-of-the-mill. Not neccesarily high-powered or laden with options; crank windows, no power or heated seats, cloth interior, etc..
All the electronic do-dahs we have are market driven. Engine electronics are a neccesity to get these engines down to a reasonable level of emissions. I'm not some tree-hugger, but with the amount of vehicles out there, something had to be done or the whole world will end up being like the LA Basin was in the 60's.
It seems MB-USA is trying to get the image in the US altered a little so that it will appeal and be affordable to the important youth market, say 20 to 30 year olds, very important to appeal to this crowd. Exclusivity is bound to suffer, no doubt. This will end up being a widely varying range of products though. Sounds exciting to me.
On the comment that these seem to be disposable cars, I believe that the product lines will always have much better coverage of parts to keep them on the road than other manufacturers typically do. At least that's the history of it. Try ordering just a small sampling of (other than driveline) parts from GM or Ford for say a 1980 vehicle, forget it!
Gilly

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Chrysler & Mitsubishi have had a strong influence on the interior design of the new Mercedes, judging from pictures posted here.

Whether that means the same people are now designing Mercedes, or if Mercedes engineers are simply going with the design flow, I don't know.

Personally, I see no reason to desire any Mercedes beyond the W123, W124 and W126 - just my opinion. A good diesel import might change my opinion, we'll just have to see if it happens. And I wouldn't be beyond buying a good Dodge truck with a pure Mercedes diesel in it.

Ken300D

I still love Mercedes, however, I am not fond of the fact that our beloved 722.6 tranny is going to be put into the Jeep Grand Cherokee in 2004 US models and supposedly 2002 Australian models.

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Ali Al-Chalabi

2001 CLK55
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel
2002 Harley-Davidson Fatboy
Merlin Extralight w/ Campy Record

I believe MB still considered by most a very prestige car. Even with the entry level C coupe selling at $25K, most people are still paying under $25K for a car. When they see a E Class with the price tag of $45K and upward, their reactions generally would rather like "holy smoke".

When I first got my ML a couple years ago; while leaving a parking garage the attendant made a comment to this date I still remember. "Wow, this is a car made for the riches of the rich". Of course I don't think much of it when you own one and you know how much you paid so its not a big deal. But for most people they will immediately associate MB with big $$$ naturally.

As far as quality is concerned, only us who own a MB know the difference. Bet you most people given a choice will take a MB any given day if it is free, before they will take a Toyota or Honda.

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95 R129
04 Infiniti G35.5 BS
10 X204

Gillybenztech, I am very surprised you haven't been to Europe, I thought all MB and BMW techs had to do at least one training session in Germany.

Gillybenztech, I don't think MB is considered a rich persons car in the USA, nor do I think MB is considered a "chevy or ford " in Europe as there are Chevrolets and Fords in Europe to be bought. In no way is MB an ordinary car in Europe. I've seen more S class sedans on a daily basis in the USA than I've ever seen in Europe. In fact, in Germany any MB is still consider "ein schones Auto" whereas in the USA it seems to be no big deal(everyone from drug dealers to the local dentist seems to have an MB). Please correct me, but isn't the USA MBs largest market?

I think the reason so many European taxi drivers use MBs is that they are cheaper in the long run(reliable, good resale value and what passengers expect). Taxi fares aren't exactly cheap in northern Europe.

Momentum, I agree that MB prestige is falling, unless you own a niche MB.

James:
Sure, go ahead and disagree with most of what I post, I don't give a rip.
NO, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, and AUDI mechanics go to training right here in the US. The trainers at the factory schools will go to Germany on occasion. I know several trainers, and we handle the previously mentioned car lines, if anyone was going to Europe I would know about it.
I don't know how you can say MB isn't considered a rich persons car in one sentence, then say "everyone from a drug dealer to a dentist" own one. A drug dealer can make tons of money based on the expense of the toys they confiscate from them, and a dentist is usually in a high income bracket (not all, but most). New MB owners are usually at least in the upper-middle income bracket, even the youthful 20-30 year olds they are after aren't typically high school drop outs that sweep floors at night, they usually have good jobs and are "upwardly mobile" as the terminology reads.
The reason I compared MB to Chevy and Ford is that MB is built in Europe and is seen as run-of-the-mill, instead of the US where they are marketed as a luxury car. They do have some neat options available in Europe that you don't see here in the US, but most of the Mercedes over in Europe aren't as fancy, percentage-wise, as they are in the US. When was the last time MB brought a car to the US without power windows and A/C for example?
I didn't give any reason for MB's to be used as taxi's in Europe, just stating the fact. You rarely see an MB taxi in the US as you can only get fancy Mercedes here, that mostly was my point. In Europe you can get a stripped down car suitable for taxi use. A taxi driver here in the US doesn't really want leather seats, sunroof, power windows (in the back anyways), etc. If you know anyone who drives a cab, you ask him why leather seats may be a BAD idea in a cab.
I also don't understand why you say MB is not an ordinary car in Europe (even though they are built there, they sell stripped down versions as taxi's, they are used as cop cars and they also sell the little cheap A class and delivery vans) but then you contradict yourself and say that you've "seen more S class sedans on a daily basis in the USA than I've ever seen in Europe". This supports my opinion that the MB is marketed as an upscale car only in certain markets, like the US, but in the home market they offer many different levels of luxury. Either way they are still a very safe car.
Gilly

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I suggest that MB’s “prestige” is most likely either unchanged, and may have even gone up a bit. Based on increasing sales, and no cheapening of opportunity cost. Folks perceptions of Mercedes hasn’t gone down because there is no reason for it to have gone down. Some will always speak negatively of the product line such as calling a MB a “Nazi” mobile, and now perhaps a glorified “Cordoba” or “Jeep,” in the case of the ML and G wagon. But these negative comments don’t reflect the “prestige” of the car; merely the comments of mud-slingers or detractors.

Now on the chance Momentum is implying whether the “quality” of the vehicle has gone down, that is complex to answer. You’d have to measure the cost of a new car per vehicle over its service life in absolute dollars compared with an older vehicle using the same criteria. Without taking the time to do this--which would be difficult as we’d need to look into the future to do so--I would suggest that MB is probably a better quality vehicle now than it has ever been. This is simply due to advances in engineering, ergonomics, and electronics. Consequently you get a car that is a more precisely built, more enjoyable to drive, and has lots of toys for both safety and enjoyment. And it still is the one to beat in virtually every class. To put this another way, if a new MB (you pick the model) in absolute terms cost about 25%-45% more than they do now, you would naturally expect more. Well if you consider that a 1990 model year MB sold at $40K to grab a number out of the air, that same vehicle new today would be around $50K to $60K, and it would not have the features that new vehicles do. That doesn’t sound like better quality to me!

Now would a more precisely built, safer, more enjoyable and more feature laden standard of quality vehicle be of lower prestige than one of lesser qualities? I think not, which is why I suggest the MB prestige is either the same or has gone up a bit.

Regards

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

I still believe that MB's brand equity is still very high, probably higher than any other car make in the U.S., with the exception of the exotics like Ferrari, Rolls Royce, etc.

My best guess is that their image has suffered a bit recently with their quality ratings decline. They barely make the top ten overall, and the ML has serious quality problems, even below Hyundai. If they don't get this buttoned up, it will take its toll.

Also, as MB goes further down in price trying to get younger people into their cars, the mystique has to be affected.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Sorry Gillybenztech, when I speak of a "rich person" I'm talking about the top 1-5% of the US population(as far as income,but mainly assets). In my neck-of-the-woods a dentist is not considered a "rich person", a top brain surgeon might be considered rich. Yes, you are correct, many drug dealers are "rich". I just have to say that I'm shocked every time I drive by an elementary school and see "c" and "e" class MBs in the teachers parking lot, when I graduated a couple of years ago those teachers weren't driving MBs----something has happened to allow them to afford them(and these days its certainly not the markets performance). Another example, I don't think real estate agents are considered "rich people" but yet many, many in this area drive MBs, its just normal, whereas in Germany if you're doing business with someone driving such a car as an MB you would often think twice and wonder how wise they are with money, different business culture.

From my point of view, many people in the USA buy MBs because MBs are "reassuringly expensive" and tend to give one the feeling of fitting in or being "normal". Of course, different US regions may vary, but I'm referring to NYC, Houston, Chicago and Los Angeles in general.

I guess I know why you compare MBs in Europe to Fords and Chevrolets, but did you know some of those smaller MBs weren't made in Europe but in RSA?

Gilly, I'm confused, as I talked to a dealer principal who told me that his top salesmen and technicians were sent to Germany once a year as some kind of reward for good service and that this was something they strove for. I thought it was kind of a national program open to techs and salesmen.

James:
Pardon me for assuming, but you talk like someone who has never "had" to work for a living, or at least never been broke; in short I don't think you know what it is to be poor.

Yes, I know MB (Daimler Chrysler anyways) has plants all over the world.

The dealer principal is only partially correct. Salesmen are sent to Germany, basicaly to pick up a car, there is some type of incentive program involved. Since I am in the shop, not on the sales floor (have to work for a living), I am unsure of the details, but it is hardly considered technical training.
MB does have the TRP, or Technician Recognition Program, which the top prize is a trip to Germany, mostly for tours of some of the production plants ans the MB museum. They also allude to "training", maybe one of the techs who has won this can tell us how much "training" is involved. I would imagine it would be very useful to see the plant and understand better the process in building a Mercedes in particular.
But the training of the techs in the US is done at several locations here in the US. I usually go to the one in Itasca (Chicago Training Center) IL, There are also facilities for Tech training in Texas, California, Florida, and I believe New Jersey, there may be others.
I have found a resource to answer your question about US marketshare for Mercedes.
In 2001 the total output for Mercedes was 1,114,000. The US share of this was 207,000.
All of Europe bought 854,000, Germany alone was the largest consumer at 436,000.
The only thing to be aware of is that the figures for Europe and Germany also include the sales of MCC smart, which is not available in the US. Total worldwide production for Mercedes including MCC smart was 1,230,000.
Other interesting facts:
The best production number was the C-class, which sold 507,000, which was a 30% increase over 2000.
The biggest increase in 2001 was the G-class, which only sold 6000 units, but was a 53% increase over 2000!
Gilly

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I guess something must have happened to Helen (Shellenberg's wife) in order for her to afford a Mercedes. If an average fella like me can afford one I don't think it's all that difficult for someone like my neighbour to own one as well, and most of the time for less cash than a brand new "loaded" Ford Explorer.

My SIL's payments on her '01 Ford Explorer are around $650 each month. Holy cow! I said when I heard that. Have you read JCE's threads and Shellenbergs threads on their cost of Mercedes ownership? If everyone could be as smart with their money, we would all be driving Benzes.

Kuan

I think that the newest MB I would ever buy is the W140 just because I think it is the last of the real Big Bodies. (Would preffer a nice w126) Maybe they have not gotten to be that bad but they are no longer know for being over built and built proof they are know for being expensive to buy and fix. After seeing the new C I think the engineers need a check up. Same with the BMW 7. just my 2 cents