Continuing to try to fix the Buick... - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Simpler=Better · #76 11-10-2014, 12:29 PM

That looks about 3x cleaner than my DD which has been flushed twice now. If it doesn't overheat, flush & refill....

P.C. · #77 11-10-2014, 07:00 PM

You're in luck! I've found an instructional video...How to push a car off a cliff - YouTube

Mölyapina · #78 11-10-2014, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

there are two block drains - one for each side of the block - its usually a 14mm head bolt, That sludge you see is due to air in the cooling system.

If you notice - the radiator cap is a bit lower than the Z shaped steel pipe on top of the lower manifold - thats where it locks in air and dexcool starts to accumulate this sludgy junk. I found that its best to backfill the engine with coolant slowly from the heater hose that leads to the back of the thermostat, then fill with a big funnel stuck in the radiator cap opening and keep the level higher than the entire engine start and bleed through the bleed valves.

Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely look for that second drain plug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better

That looks about 3x cleaner than my DD which has been flushed twice now. If it doesn't overheat, flush & refill....

It doesn't overheat, but I hate the idea of this crap in there. I'm still considering my options. At this point, I want to pull the thermostat to see how bad it looks. If it's relatively unsludged, I'll just run a flush or two. If it's nasty, I'll want to disassemble and clean the cooling system the best I can. i may still remove the radiator either way. We'll see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.C.

You're in luck! I've found an instructional video...How to push a car off a cliff - YouTube

That seems just a touch drastic.

JB3 · #79 11-11-2014, 09:19 AM

It doesnt overheat?
This is called digging yourself a very deep hole. Dont take the whole car apart because of a little gunk under the radiator cap.

Clean it off, drive a while, check for more gunk, rinse and repeat. If its not overheating, this is unnecessary, but more importantly, major explorative projects of this type tend to stall and result in a dead car sitting for a long time that you eventually dont want to even look at.

Just my 2 cents.

Simpler=Better · #80 11-11-2014, 11:30 AM

If you're really worrying about the gunk, install a filter on one of the heater hose lines. Generic gasoline filters + adapters should do the trick. Or two garden hose barbed adapters+a hose screen.

Just make sure the filter is on the heater hose so that when it plugs you only lose heat and not the engine.

Mölyapina · #81 11-12-2014, 01:29 AM

I can see what John is saying about not digging myself into a hole of having two non-runners sitting in my driveway. Because of that and because the cooling system doesn't look so bad (upon further inspection), I will leave it be except for potentially multiple flushes.

I got a lot done in about two hours today! I pulled the alt, unbolted and moved over the PS pump, pulled and emptied the coolant reservoir, and organized all of the parts that I have pulled so far so that I'll remember how everything goes back during reinstallation. Basically, all I have to do is pull the coolant line running across the manifold, unbolt the valve covers, and then I'm ready to pull the IM!

My trunk is growing ever fuller of parts:

This is the one confusing thing: that is all of the coolant I have managed to get out so far. The system supposedly holds 11-odd quarts.

I'm clearly missing several quarts of coolant. Where could it be? I've concluded that there is no drain plug on the rear of the block, so that means that I've basically done everything right so far (as far as I can tell). I forgot to check the oil, but last time I had a look, it seemed pretty good-looking.

My sister was saying that I should fill the system with water to see what it takes to fill it. It sounds like a good idea to me, but at this point I've disassembled enough of the car that I definitely should just complete the IM gasket job before trying to hunt down my missing coolant in ways that would require running the car.

My one concern, and maybe it is a little silly, is that there somehow is coolant hiding inside of the manifold that is waiting to spill all over the engine internals the second I pull of the lower manifold. Does this even sound like a remote possibility?

Mölyapina · #82 11-12-2014, 01:33 AM

Notes to self:

Remember to pull lower rad hose just to see what happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

there may be multiple block drains. you might try putting a piece of weedeater string in the block drain to see if it clogged.

Do this^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

there are two block drains - one for each side of the block - its usually a 14mm head bolt, That sludge you see is due to air in the cooling system.

If you notice - the radiator cap is a bit lower than the Z shaped steel pipe on top of the lower manifold - thats where it locks in air and dexcool starts to accumulate this sludgy junk. I found that its best to backfill the engine with coolant slowly from the heater hose that leads to the back of the thermostat, then fill with a big funnel stuck in the radiator cap opening and keep the level higher than the entire engine start and bleed through the bleed valves.

Remember this^

Stretch · #83 11-12-2014, 03:06 AM

Ahhh I see it is coming along nicely - you've learnt the art of keeping a good clean and tidy work area

Mölyapina · #84 11-12-2014, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Ahhh I see it is coming along nicely - you've learnt the art of keeping a good clean and tidy work area

Oh yeah, totally.

P.C. · #85 11-12-2014, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

I can see what John is saying about not digging myself into a hole of having two non-runners sitting in my driveway. Because of that and because the cooling system doesn't look so bad (upon further inspection), I will leave it be except for potentially multiple flushes.

I got a lot done in about two hours today! I pulled the alt, unbolted and moved over the PS pump, pulled and emptied the coolant reservoir, and organized all of the parts that I have pulled so far so that I'll remember how everything goes back during reinstallation. Basically, all I have to do is pull the coolant line running across the manifold, unbolt the valve covers, and then I'm ready to pull the IM!

My trunk is growing ever fuller of parts:

This is the one confusing thing: that is all of the coolant I have managed to get out so far. The system supposedly holds 11-odd quarts.

I'm clearly missing several quarts of coolant. Where could it be? I've concluded that there is no drain plug on the rear of the block, so that means that I've basically done everything right so far (as far as I can tell). I forgot to check the oil, but last time I had a look, it seemed pretty good-looking.

My sister was saying that I should fill the system with water to see what it takes to fill it. It sounds like a good idea to me, but at this point I've disassembled enough of the car that I definitely should just complete the IM gasket job before trying to hunt down my missing coolant in ways that would require running the car.

My one concern, and maybe it is a little silly, is that there somehow is coolant hiding inside of the manifold that is waiting to spill all over the engine internals the second I pull of the lower manifold. Does this even sound like a remote possibility?

Just remember that if you fill the system with only water and cannot drain all of it out, you have to add antifreeze in a high enough concentration to ensure that the entire system winds up being filled with 50% antifreeze/50% water. My father once filled up his '68 Cadillac cooling system with roughly 90% water, then couldn't figure out why a cold snap resulted in the engine block's freeze plugs popping loose because of ice forming in the block. It was a miracle that he didn't crack the block.

Zulfiqar · #86 11-12-2014, 11:49 AM

there are 4 ports in the lower manifold that channel coolant from both heads. You have probably gone down on level quite a lot but if you are unable to find the block drains then get a leaf blower and make a setup that you blow air through the heater hose that connects to the lower intake manifold on the side of the thermostat housing, Open the radiator drain or remove a hose and get a huge pan under the car to collect the coolant that shoots out. Measure all of it.

coolant does spill into the engine and you have to be very careful that it does not flood the engine - thats why I recommended 4 strips of blue shop towels pushed into the coolant ports of the head and hang them outwards from the engine, they wick the coolant and drain it out rather than into the cam valley.

I see that you are 90% done removing the pretty bits from the engine to see the lower manifold, you are only short on removing the upper hose and the heater metal hoses from the manifold. after you take off everything including the chintzy 4 bolts you may require herculean strength to remove the manifold if the previous mechanic tried to be goofy with it and applied some adhesive.

Mölyapina · #87 11-12-2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.C.

Just remember that if you fill the system with only water and cannot drain all of it out, you have to add antifreeze in a high enough concentration to ensure that the entire system winds up being filled with 50% antifreeze/50% water. My father once filled up his '68 Cadillac cooling system with roughly 90% water, then couldn't figure out why a cold snap resulted in the engine block's freeze plugs popping loose because of ice forming in the block. It was a miracle that he didn't crack the block.

Oy, good point. Thanks for the reminder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

there are 4 ports in the lower manifold that channel coolant from both heads. You have probably gone down on level quite a lot but if you are unable to find the block drains then get a leaf blower and make a setup that you blow air through the heater hose that connects to the lower intake manifold on the side of the thermostat housing, Open the radiator drain or remove a hose and get a huge pan under the car to collect the coolant that shoots out. Measure all of it.

coolant does spill into the engine and you have to be very careful that it does not flood the engine - thats why I recommended 4 strips of blue shop towels pushed into the coolant ports of the head and hang them outwards from the engine, they wick the coolant and drain it out rather than into the cam valley.

I see that you are 90% done removing the pretty bits from the engine to see the lower manifold, you are only short on removing the upper hose and the heater metal hoses from the manifold. after you take off everything including the chintzy 4 bolts you may require herculean strength to remove the manifold if the previous mechanic tried to be goofy with it and applied some adhesive.

I've found and opened the block drain, but nothing comes out of it. I believe that this engine has only one block drain, both since the FSM says so and because a second block drain in the rear would be a horrific pain to access without at least pulling the exhaust manifold.

Thanks for reminding me about the towel trick. That's brilliant.

Pulling the manifold shouldn't be too awful, since I believe I'm the first person to touch it. It'll just be the usual stuck 20-year-old gaskets thing.

Mölyapina · #88 11-15-2014, 12:45 AM

A couple things of note:

I bought this on eBay. It's a "digital torque adapter" that has a range of 3 - 59 ft-lbs and is accurate within 2% at 12-59 ft-lbs. I'm looking forward to using it. I'm going to end up tightening the bolts on the IM using a combination of this and a 20-200 inch-lb torque wrench that i can get through Autozone's tool rental program. I figure that I can use my new toy to check the calibration of the Autozone wrench.
A side benefit of being a vacuum collector is that I have vacuum parts lying around. Since I don't have a leaf blower, I was thinking of reversing the polarity on this vacuum motor and hooking it up to a coolant hose. How does that sound?

The motor is actually inside that steel casing, where you see the nut in this picture:
Here's the updated torque pattern that I have found. Does this look right?
- Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 7 N.m (62 lb in)
- Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 7 N.m (62 lb in)
- Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 13 N.m (115 lb in)
- Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 25 N.m (18 lb ft)

w123fanman · #89 11-15-2014, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

This is the one confusing thing: that is all of the coolant I have managed to get out so far. The system supposedly holds 11-odd quarts.

I'm clearly missing several quarts of coolant. Where could it be? I've concluded that there is no drain plug on the rear of the block, so that means that I've basically done everything right so far (as far as I can tell). I forgot to check the oil, but last time I had a look, it seemed pretty good-looking.

My sister was saying that I should fill the system with water to see what it takes to fill it. It sounds like a good idea to me, but at this point I've disassembled enough of the car that I definitely should just complete the IM gasket job before trying to hunt down my missing coolant in ways that would require running the car.

My one concern, and maybe it is a little silly, is that there somehow is coolant hiding inside of the manifold that is waiting to spill all over the engine internals the second I pull of the lower manifold. Does this even sound like a remote possibility?

Drill baby, drill

Upon further thought, probably not a good idea

Zulfiqar · #90 11-17-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

A couple things of note:

I bought this on eBay. It's a "digital torque adapter" that has a range of 3 - 59 ft-lbs and is accurate within 2% at 12-59 ft-lbs. I'm looking forward to using it. I'm going to end up tightening the bolts on the IM using a combination of this and a 20-200 inch-lb torque wrench that i can get through Autozone's tool rental program. I figure that I can use my new toy to check the calibration of the Autozone wrench.
A side benefit of being a vacuum collector is that I have vacuum parts lying around. Since I don't have a leaf blower, I was thinking of reversing the polarity on this vacuum motor and hooking it up to a coolant hose. How does that sound?

The motor is actually inside that steel casing, where you see the nut in this picture:
Here's the updated torque pattern that I have found. Does this look right?
- Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 7 N.m (62 lb in)
- Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 7 N.m (62 lb in)
- Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 13 N.m (115 lb in)
- Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 25 N.m (18 lb ft)

the torque sequence is correct except that its missing the last step of advancing the vertical bolts to 115 lb/in again as they will be loose once you torque down the side bolts to 18 lb/ft (your step 4)

the side bolts are not a straight shot and require either a super shorty wobble socket or a crows foot.