We're in that season again folks. So I thought it would be fun to bring forth the spirit of another somnolent thread.

Here's who pays the bills.

Bot

And there's this, too.

That representative government belches a law or program is no guarantee of correct principles followed. The principle of self sufficiency and strength through adversity as desirable and necesary character assets are ignored by welfare programs as designed and administered by govt.

The absence of these traits creates dependency and depresses incentive resulting in a lack of, or false self worth. The presence of lowered self esteem/confidence coupled with low motivation, encourages sloth and other human nature flaws which can lead to other poor choices and their consequences, which, if unrecognized, will stain the lives of the rest of society.

The subject in question does have the legal claim to any "assistance" organized and ratified by govt., that much is true. "Right" has very little to do with it, though.

For the record, we live in a democratic republic as prescribed by the founding documents.

As long as you have majority rule the majority will write themselves a blank check, and push the burden on the minority that have the greater wealth. It's imposable to amend the Constitution to qualify voters because the majority would never support it. By being able to vote we can effect revolution, but a revolution that would recognize the power of elites would never fly. Therefore you be stuck until some unforeseen catastrophe forces a common resolve to turn over control to a minority and we'll start all over again.
I think the combination of state control, central partnership and smaller entrepreneurship that China is moving towards is where we'll ultimately be headed. In the end we'll merge into one.

So MikeM, I'm curious. What alternate system would you suggest? Flat tax?

We have a winner here.

Don't know about him but a flat tax with NO, ZERO, ZILCH loopholes would be good.

A national retail sales tax.

Anyone interested in tax reform MUST, MUST, MUST, MUST, MUST read this book!!!!:

The Fairtax Book, by Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060875410/102-6076938-4752914?v=glance&n=283155

Also, this website is very informative:

http://www.fairtax.org/

This system would be much more fair, INFINITELY more efficient, and also much more corruption/evasion-proof.

Mike

Frank Zappa wrote about that years ago. But until recently I have never heard it mentioned. I think it would be wonderfull to tax drug dealers and churches.

That's an interesting site, Mike. I'm curious how that system would work with foreign trade. How is tax generated on items made here and sent overseas and vice versa? It seems that this system is dependent upon rampant consumerism (which, admittedly, is our society today). What happens to revenues when people decide to buy only used materials? Wouldn't manufacturing suffer as a result? What about industries which are largely service in nature and don't really produce a material product. Would they in essence be tax-free?

Sorry about all the questions but it's the first time I've really looked at this tax system.

That's one of the ways that the "more fair" part applies: Services would be taxed as well. ANY goods or services sold at the retail level would be taxed. Private sales between individuals would not be affected.

Manufacturing in the US can't suffer much more than it currently does, don't you think?... Our oppressive tax structure is a big part of the problem. The national retail sales tax would also eliminate corporate taxes. A national retail sales tax would serve to discourage outsourcing and offshore tax shelters, and also would encourage foreign companies to invest in manufacturing and other endeavors in the US.

The IRS maintains over 100,000 employees. It also maintains huge office buildings and filing facilities in cities all over the US. Currently, there are over 56,000 pages of absurdly complex, indecipherable tax code, and this increases every year. Who pays for this monstrous juggernaut? You and I. Administering a national retail sales tax system would only require a fraction of this expenditure. Most of the infrastructure for collecting it already exists, since most states already collect sales taxes.

Individuals, businesses, and non-profits spent an estimated 6 billion hours complying with the federal income tax code in 2005, at an estimated cost of over $265 billion. This amounts to imposing a 22-cent tax compliance surcharge for every dollar the income tax system collects. This is a model of waste and inefficiency, if there ever was one.

Concerning used items... Used items cannot be bought and sold forever... Used cars, used electronics, used clothing... all of these things have a finite life span, and people have to buy "new" eventually. The end result of the retail sales tax system would be that most taxpayers would actually have slightly MORE money in their pockets, which translates to more spending at the retail level.

I could post endlessly trying explain this thing and answer questions..... I'm telling you, please READ THE FAIRTAX BOOK. It is extremely thorough, and will answer every question you have about the concept.

Mike

Here is a question about taxes. I earn $100 a month and it is taxed. When I buy something, it too is taxed. Kinda of a double tax, isn't it? If I save it and I earn something, it too is taxed. Where does it end?

Want to talk about fairness, look at #17 above.

B

PS Aklim, it ends at your grave. But that's only until they re-instate the death tax.

Exactly.

That is something else that the fairtax system would eliminate: The double and triple taxation of the same income that frequently occurs under the current system.

Mike

There's another BIG benefit of the FairTax system that never occurs to most folks: It would eliminate one of the largest problem-areas concerning illegal immigrants:

Currently we have millions of illegals living and working here, using our infrastructure, hospitals, schools, etc., while not paying a DIME of income tax. This costs YOU AND I money and time, and consumes resources that SHOULD be going to legitimate, tax-paying citizens.

Under a national retail sales tax, illegals would also be taxed--every time they go to the store and buy something! So finally, they would actually be contributing tax revenue, instead of leeching off it.

Mike