Just to give an example of why spanking/physical disciplne does work if used correctly.



I have a cousin who was spoiled rotten to the core. Anything,everything he wanted.

His mother dealt with his tantrums with"understanding" and "conversation".

One day his mother was o the verge of a breakdown becasue the bastard was running around like a maniac, breaking stuff, cursing, et....she tells him no more tv and calmly unplugs the tv.

Well the crying ranting and raving got worse and littel Manny got a pair of scissors and went to stab his mother, screaming" I hate you, I hope you die"

His mother had to dodge out of the way of the scissors and tried to "talk" him out of his rage........ I grabbed his little nipple and squeezed until he was in tears from the pain and told him, while holding his nipple, that he better stop and behave like an 8 year old boy, instead of a 4 year old girl or it would get worse.

He calmed down, didn't say a word and went to his room. His mother was in shock and actually got mad at me.

We patched things up and little Manny respected his mother ever since.

Talking didn't work with him...pain did.

If that's what it takes so be it. As long as it is not abusive.

How else could he have been dealt with?

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

I think you did the right thing. In this case, the child was beyond the state of reasoning. No talking would have changed his behavior. Only the very real and immediate feeling of pain could suffice. Once calmed down, he would then realize the severity of his actions, put two and two together, and think twice before acting that way again. My .02.

When I was a child, I never acted out physcially against anyone. I did, however, have fits of rage ("temper tantrums") a lot, mostly due to frustration. My mom would send me to my room and if I didn't stop stomping and screaming there she would fill up a pot with cold water, open the door to my room, and throw it at me. Got my attention real quick and I'd shut up immediately.

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Current:
2014 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion 43,000 miles.

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (wife's).

Past:
2006 Jetta TDI 135,970 miles. Sold Nov. '13.
1995 E-320 Special Edition. 220,200 miles. Sold Sept. '07.
1987 190-E 16 valve. 153,000 miles. Sold Feb. '06.
1980 300-D 225,000 miles. Donated to the National Kidney Foundation.
1980 240-D manual, 297,500 miles. Totaled by inattentive driver.

steel-toed boot meets @$$...

That kid is biding his time, patiently waiting for the perfect opportunity to exact his wicked revenge. When you least expect it...WHAMO!!!! Watch yer back dude...

I've been keeping up with my Akido training and waiting for his little ass.......

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

First off, my parents used both methods, we were told twice and if it got that far, then the "Board of Education" came out. My sister still has the "Board". I don't in any way feel like I was an abused child because I was taught to respect authority. I have never been arrested nor have gotten into any serious trouble. I have raised my children in a similar manner, getting many good compliments on them by their teachers as well as friends of mine.

I have had the unique opportunity of being a school bus driver and many, but not all, of the children who were "talked to" were the most unruly, rude, disrespectful bunch of brats I ever had the "pleasure" of knowing. For them "talking to" seemed to work after a while IF they wanted to get home, I was very picky about them following the rules for their safety. Also after a period of time I gained respect out of most all of my "Lil Darlin's" because they knew that when I told them to do something I expected it to be carried out. As a result, I also gained the respect of most of their parents as well for being so safety conscious.

The bottom line here, IMHO, is that both methods can work if applied consistently with parents not caving in because they don't want to "scar them for life" by warming their childs britches when needed.

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1991 300SE (my ride, 279,000 miles, looks almost new
1954 Cadillac (21 yo son's car, he bought when age 15)
1972 SeaBird 19 ft runabout (old but solid, slant six, Volvo sterndrive perfect condition, undergoing complete overhaul and refit)
1998 Toyota Rav4 (my sons daily driver when he is in the Continental US, PROUDLY serving in US Navy)

Talking works great on people willing to talk.

Botnst

Talking works great on people willing to talk?

It's been my experience that you've got to find somebody that will talk AND listen before your are going to get anything accomplished.

Kids seem to rule the world these days. Most parents I meet are actually afraid oif their kids being mad at them....

bard II -

He is currently finishing up his 2nd year of college and has been a stable calm young man for quite some time, despite his father walking out of his life at the age of 12.

As far as I know, he hasn't gotten in any type of trouble.

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

"Talking works great with people willing to listen."

True enough, but the opposite is also true.

Talking doesn't work with people unwilling to talk. If only one person is willing to talk and the other person is simply waiting until the talking ends, that does nothing but build contempt in the non-talker.

Contempt is poison to discipline.

A child without discipline is a disaster in search of opportunity.

Botnst

Well said.

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

Botnst

I'm not sure I follow you 100% on your point about listening and generating contempt. I don't feel contempt when somebody is talking to me or explaining something.

Do you mean that if the listener is not at a certain level of maturity (as is the case here) they will have contempt for the speaker if they disagree with him?

I can certainly agree with that.

Behaviour management of children can be done effectively using non-physical methods. However, I think it is up to each parent, and there is no "right" or "wrong."

I would never hit my child. It's just our way. It takes a lot of effort to use consequences effectively and stick with it. It's okay to restrain your child if they get out of control and might hurt themselves, but I don't hit.

My own daughter wishes we spanked. It's over in seconds. She despises consequences. They last a long time and there is a great deal of conversation that goes along with it.

Why is so hard? Well, you've got to follow through EVERY time. NEVER threaten. It's a foolish tactic and never works on any circumstance, especially with children. They're durned smart. As an example, my daughter would throw a tantrum at the store if she didn't get her way. We had to leave the store immediately and go home. This meant a big inconvienance for me too. I didn't get the shopping finished and wasted tons of time. But, that's the way it is. Give in, and they cotton on to the pattern. It works. She is very well behaved, most of the time. But, she's bright and figures things out pretty durned quick, so we have to be on top of it.

The job of the parent is to ensure the child listens. This can be a real struggle (geez, there's a theme here, eh?) but can be done. Sometimes, it means nothing more than time for them to calm down.

If a child does something outrageous that is potentially physically harmful to a family member, this must be dealt with immediately and effectively.

Truth be told, and sorry to say it, but in a case where a child uses such extreme behaviour, it's usually a case of the parent being inconsistent over a long period of time. Unless the child has something really wrong with them.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

Sometimes when we believe we engage in genuine dialogue, its somethin else entirely.

Sometimes a person is just waiting so they can resume whatever they were doing before you interrupted them.

Sometimes the person is utterly contemptuous of everything not in conformity with his expectations.

In case, the other person isn't listening and could care less what is being said.

Under those circumstances, corporal punishment tends to sharpen the focus and bring total attention to the moment and subject "at hand".

That same method works on adults, too. Public humiliation goes a long way in behavior modification of recalcitrants. Why else shield perps from newspaper accounts?

Bring back stocks!

Botnst