What caliber were BAR's and when did they come out?

The BAR is also 30.06. I have looked through eveything I have and cannot find any reference to .270 and the Garand. Not to say that it isn't true, but it seems unlikely as they would have had an incredible amount of 30.06 around after WWI. To switch cartidges would not have made sense, again not to say that it wasn't considered (even though everything our government does makes sense ) The case on a .270 is the same as 30.06, just necked down to .270. It is one heck of a cartridge.

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1982 Mercedes-Benz 300CD
1982 Mercedes-Benz 240D - stick

moparmike:
You are correct. After a lot of digging, I found the following:

"For more than thirty years the Ordnance Department endeavored to obtain a satisfactory semi-automatic or self-loading rifle to replace the bolt action Springfield. These efforts were not confined to development within the Department. Invitations were extended periodically to gun designers in this country and abroad to submit weapons for test, and tests were made of those received which showed any promise of meeting the specifications prescribed.

During this period of thirty odd years many rifles were received and tested. Mechanisms embodying every known principle of operation were represented in the many types submitted.

Until 1924 efforts had been mainly directed toward developing a rifle to fire the caliber .30 service cartridge. It may be of interest to state here the principal characteristics of the weapon which designers and inventors had been asked to provide:

First: It must be of the self-loading type, adapted to function with the service cartridge.

Second: The weight must not exceed nine pounds.

Third: It must be well balanced and be adapted to shoulder firing.

Fourth: It must be simple, strong and compact, and adapted to ease of manufacture.

Fifth: It must be so designed that the magazine can be fed from clips or chargers.

Sixth: It must be entirely semi-automatic; i.e., so designed that it is impossible to fire more than one shot with each squeeze of the trigger.

Seventh: The mechanism must be so designed as to preclude the possibility of premature unlocking. Preferably the bolt should be positively locked at the instant of firing.

Eighth: The use of special oil or grease or other material applied to the cartridge should not be necessary to the proper functioning of the weapon.

Every model tested to that date (1924) was rejected for failing to meet these specifications in one or more respects, which is eloquent testimony as to the difficulties encountered by designers.

So much effort having been fruitless in providing a satisfactory weapon, it was decided to investigate a caliber smaller than that of the service round. After many tests of various calibers, it was decided that the caliber .276 cartridge developed sufficient power for a shoulder weapon and that the use of this smaller cartridge would facilitate the design of a reliable and durable self-loading rifle within the prescribed weight limit and would also reduce the load of the individual soldier due to the lighter weight of the cartridge. Of the several rifles in this caliber submitted for test, two were outstanding: the Pedersen, designed and developed by Mr. John D. Pedersen; and the Garand, designed and developed by Mr. John C. Garand. Both Mr. Pedersen and Mr. Garand carried on their development work at the Springfield Armory.

A number of each of these types were manufactured and submitted to the services for test. Both rifles performed very well. However, to adopt a weapon of this caliber involved further complication of the supply problem by the introduction of another type of ammunition.

In the meantime, Mr. Garand, who has been in the employ of the Ordnance Department at the Springfield Armory for the past eighteen years as a designer of automatic weapons, completed a test model of a semi-automatic rifle designed to function with either the Caliber .30, Model 1906, or the caliber .30, Ml, service cartridge. This rifle appeared so promising in its preliminary tests that decision to adopt the caliber .276 was held in abeyance. The results of continued tests of the caliber .30 weapon were so excellent that the caliber .276 project was abandoned altogether and the caliber .30 weapon as developed by Mr. Garand was adopted as the standard shoulder weapon of our Army. This action was taken in January, 1936. "

-Scott Duff

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1982 Mercedes-Benz 300CD
1982 Mercedes-Benz 240D - stick

Slightly OT but any recommendations for a light weight handgun?

....used when hiking

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Honestly, I am not a revolver expert. For primo advice, I have to plug The High Road* once again. However, if I wanted to feel secure against everything this side of a bear, i would probably get a Ruger GP100 or SP101 in .357mag, with at least a 4in barrel. It may not be super lightweight, but its weight will make you feel secure. IF you really want lightweight, get an S&W Airweight. However, you wont find this in long barrels, and it will be more pricey than a used Ruger, which is built like a tank. HTH

*When you register, tell them Moparmike sent you.

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I second the S&W Airweight, but I would get it in 38sp and load it with +P ammo (saves even more weight over the 357) They hold 5 rounds, are fairly flat, and some models have hidden or low profile hammers.

Another option would be a derringer in 45LC. You could load it with .410 00Buck and fend off anyone at close range, but I think it would be heavier than the S&W.

Personally, I carry an SS Walther PPK .380 in the summer and a S&W Mod. 19 (357mag) in the winter.

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1982 Mercedes-Benz 300CD
1982 Mercedes-Benz 240D - stick

If Jimmy Stewart hadn't been locked up in the cooler

Excellent, bro! I'm glad to hear that you've come around to the REALITY side of this issue.

A gun....ANY gun....is no more deadly than a knife, or a car, or a desk lamp, or a toothbrush. It's the PERSON that determines what is, or is not, done with an object.

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
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1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
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1985 300TD
270,000 miles
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1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
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I've got a Model 38 S&W Airweight with shrouded hammer (14 oz.), but it's not rated for +P ammo. Simple. Reliable. Robust.

Lebenz, you may consider the Springfield Armory HD or a Glock, depending on how much ammo you want to hold. BTW, are you fending off potential animals on the trail...or humans?

Thanks for the feedback! My reason for wanting a hand gun is because of 2 close encounters with cougars and due to coming across bear tracks. I took a guess at the need for light weight but I don’t know what a hand gun weighs, so weight might not matter. Would any of the suggested weapons stop a cougar or bear?

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Not really...it may scare them, though.

They aren't light (or inexpensive) but look into a handgun suitable for stopping such animals....a .44 Magnum or .454 Casul, if you want to hike with confidence.

Personally, I don't care to lug a shotgun around with me while salmon fishing (I hauled my Ruger flattop .44 mag w/300something gr factory loads) but the recommended dosage (per AK F&G) for fractious bear on Kodiak is a slugged 12ga.

If you're not a handgunner, a slugged shotgun may be easier to use safely and effectively.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Well, I think that to stop a cougar a .357mag would be minimally sufficient. Personally, I would carry my 10mm. 10mm can be loaded for many different things, from 135gr projectile moving at 1600fps to a 220gr FMJ projectile moving at ~1150. People hunt bear (small bear) with a 10mm and a 220gr FMJ. I wouldnt want to try it, but people do it. Its a good hog gun.


The .357mag should do the trick. Dont get a light projectile, and dont get any barrel under 4'' for woods. A 6" barrel would be a dandy idea, for the added accuracy and speed.

If you really want to put the hurt on something and dont want a lot of recoil, get a Marlin lever-action in .357mag or .44mag. These can also shoot .38spl or .44spl, depending on which one you get. The carbine legnth barrel will add mucho fps to the projectile.


I have to stress going to The High Road for good gun advice. There are over 9000 firearm enthusiasts with more knowledge than I will ever know.

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I concur on the 6" barrel...the shortys fall to hand nicely but punish you on the road to proficiency. BTW, I have a "pre-ban" (13 rd hehe.) 1897 Winchestster chambered in .44 mag. Nice saddle gun...easy to handle, packs a wallop too. It has that stupid lever safety tho...hate that thing.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

For the use mentioned I would suggest nothing smaller than a .41 Magnum. Almost the same as the .44 but recoil is less. I would also recommend a wheel gun.

Autos are great for those accustomed to them and trained in immediately action drills. Autos can have a tendency to jam, especially if you "limp wrist", or you happen across a dud round and can be affected by dust and dirt picked up through normal carry. With the wheel gun you only need pull the trigger again and the gun has to be absolutely filthy before it binds up (custom built competition guns excepted). Pretty much fool proof, but you are limited to 6 shots.

A S&W Model 57 or Model 58 fit the bill, can be had in 4", 6" and 8" barrel lengths. I personally have a 4" Model 57. Sweet shooter. The 4" means an easier draw and lighter carry weight, but the shorter the barrel means reduced accuracy on longer range shots.

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Mike Tangas
'73 280SEL 4.5 (9/72)- RIP
Only 8,173 units built from 5/71 thru 11/72

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2012 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI...at least its a diesel

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