intrinsic value = non-instrumental value simply.
no capital letters required.

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Why the constant mention of "god" "God" "gods" "deity" or the like? One does not have to rely on the existence or non-existence of a "superbeing" to discuss whether we, as sentient life, armed with what seems to be an excess of "free will" at times, are capable of being responsible in these decisions.

From a theological POV, I suppose that if humanity were reduced to a collection of patentable proteins, then perhaps we will have lost the belief of the "sanctity" and "miracle" of life. Life will have become a commodity, like gold, oil, and weapons grade fissionable material.

As for the argument about "filtering" out disease. I suppose future generations, free from those problems could do without a Helen Keller, a Stephen Hawking, . . .

Who or whom decides intrinsic value? That entity gets the Caps.

values without capital letters. I love it.

If God created us as well as nature, then I think we would share something with nature, so still be 'natural'. I think 'Second Nature' or something like that according to the social ecologists.

I think Rick has a good point. Why would someone want to clone?
Eugenic erradication of disease could be accomplished without cloning. Cloning an exceptional person would probably not work because of the role of the environment in personal formation.
The main reason I can see is for replacement body parts, but that wouldn't necessarily involve cloning a whole person.

The best 'good' reason I can come up with is the deliberate twin creation that I mentioned earlier.

Anyone imagine other legitimate reasons to clone?

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
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1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
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God already has a plan in place to that end -- it's called evolution. Humans have actually evolved noticeably in my brief lifetime.

I can't imagine Stephen Hawking wanting to retain his disease if he had a chance to live without it.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Slavery

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

True, but would Stephen Hawking be the genius he is had he not had to live with the disease?

I don't get the slavery argument. If clones are true reproductions, they wouldn't put up with it.
Am I missing a cynical joke, or are you serious?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I'm serious. Think of an army of folks who are capable of cleaning sewers, going into battle, working in forestry or any other dangerous or undesirable jobs. Since a clone would be property, no OSHA, no liability. Treat it like a farm animal lab animal, a whore, or just abuse it for fun and dispose of it when done. This, btw is why I brought up eugenics. Not necessarily “better” just better suited to a task.

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Why would a clone be property anymore than a non-cloned child would be property?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

One of course, wouldn't call it slavery, would one?

How about intentionally breeding and developing stupid people for menial jobs?

We could all be bred for just what a well-planned society needed. There would be no reason for envy, jealousy, war, hate, etc.

"Oh roof! Roof!", cried the Epsilon.

B

You may have inadvertently "hit the nail" . . . clones are crafted reproductions. Would you expect a rift between "orginals" and "reproductions"? If you could clone, let's say 100 Tiger Woods to play golf, what does that do to the value of the original?

Go rent the 1997 movie "Gattaca" and besides tepid performances by Uma and Ethan, look at the life of the "Valids" and "Invalids".

I believe intentionally breeding people for menial jobs was called either the Hindu caste system or slavery, depending on your location. Even stupid people get pissed off and don't like being used by other people.
I've seen Gattica but it's science fiction.
No one considers identical twins any less human beings because they are identical.
Or, are you saying it is ok to enslave twins?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Which could lead us down the path of military applications, as well as others that are considered high risk.