There has NEVER been ANY violent action tied to "right wing" militias. The news, the .gov tried as hard as possible to tie McVey to a militia, ANY militia, organized or otherwise and NEVER did come up with a shred of evidence that tied him in. In fact, in the investigations, they found a noticeable LACK of membership in any "militia" org (he had attended a meeting at a few, but they were too "passive" for him and he never joined any of them.) The news STILL portrays their created fantasy of him being a militia member though.

I've been to a DNC convention...., so I MUST be a democrat, right???

Don't forget, constitutionally, any able bodied male is in the unorganized militia. Even by our own state law, any male between the ages of 18 and 45 IS the militia.

OK, back to the reg programming.

__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1985 300SD Auto - Runner.


=========================

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

OK. Since you like to just cut and paste I thought I'd do the same. I usually prefer to post my own words but I will play the game:

Here is another...

Mullah Melan Krekar, ran a terror group (the Ansar al-Islam) linked to both bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Mr. Krekar admitted to a Kurdish newspaper that he met bin Laden in Afghanistan and other senior al Qaeda officials. His acknowledged meetings with bin Laden go back to 1988. When he organized Ansar al Islam in 2001 to conduct suicide attacks on Americans, "three bin Laden operatives showed up with a gift of $300,000 'to undertake jihad,'" Newsday reported. Mr. Krekar is now in custody in the Netherlands. His group operated in portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein -- and attacked independent Kurdish groups hostile to Saddam. A spokesman for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told a United Press International correspondent that Mr. Krekar's group was funded by "Saddam Hussein's regime in Baghdad."

I enjoy being a free sucker.

i think you guys have it wrong when you think that this middle
east warfare we are having now has really any idealogical basis.
the idealogs talk and the idealogs write but the guts of the warfare is the average arab wants the western corporate/military/cultural/missionary invaders out of thier lands.

we tell them to get with the times (our time), to be democratic
(our so called goverment), to get over it (we rule), to have our social structure (duh), and follow our religion (the ever annoying christian missonary). but they just see us as invaders trampling on them.

out of the ranks of the average arab hating us for our presence
in thier land and what we are doing to them will come a few who
will fight us and the more pressure we put on them the more who will fight.

on a side, we being a entertaiment loving people, thinking tv
and movies are real life; in 'star wars' the resistance destroyed
the empire.

don

I agree with your basic point, but I don't think our attempt to bring them out of the 9th century over all is what the rank and file Arab's are rebelling against. They don't like our decadence. They see things like lesbians in leadership positions in our so-called churches. That is what they don't want.

OK – I stand corrected. I may be exposing a little of my own bias. There is an element there that gives me the crawlies though. Bout the same as my attitude of guys that dress up like outlaws and ride Harleys on the weekend, or BS about being in the Teams when in the military. I know – it’s my problem.
I can get right in line with what Jake is saying. It’s the definition of “lifestyle” that I will throw back as a curve. If we mean a freedom of expression and property rights fine. If we include a sense of entitlement to earn 10 times what we’re really worth or have an unfair advantage – well that will take care of itself. tic-tock

__________________
89 300E
79 240D
72 Westy
63 Bug sunroof
85 Jeep CJ7
86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius

You've got it

__________________
89 300E
79 240D
72 Westy
63 Bug sunroof
85 Jeep CJ7
86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius

a threat to our way of life? Come on, we are to self involved to let a little thing like terrorism get in the way of buying new and bigger SUV's.

What was the Bush answer to terrorism, go out and spend money and support the economy. Buy, spend, consume, travel.

Everything changed after 9/11? nothing changed.

All this "linked" $hit you guys push is such BS. Ansar al Islam is origianlly a Kurdish group, that operated in Kurdistan as a faction in the civil war that has been going on there since we kicked Hussein out of the area in 1991. All these groups, even our Kurdish guys, had contacts with Hussein in one way or another as each faction tried to play off the other. These poeple are the political opposites of the secular Baathists and had the Baathists marked for death. The Republicans, who have been living in Black Helicopter One World Government Conspiracy fantasy land for the past 50 years, eat this "linked" $hit up. Well, a lot of us who actually take the trouble to think, want to see some facts. Where did you get the fact " His group operated in a portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein".
This report from Human Rights Watch doesn't seem to support that, or any other article I can Google on the web. Find us a fact that ties Mr. Hussein to 911, and get back to me.

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/mena/ansarbk020503.htm

This one, made my day:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a London's Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" to be established in Baghdad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I Googled "Allied Democratic Forces" and "Iraqi Intelligence Center" I got back nine hits, all from right wing chatrooms or politcal web sites. When I finally found the actual article, it became a very interesting exercise. The only paper who ever printed this article , a tabloid of some sort called "The London Daily Telegraph", a paper which has only been in existence since 1997, is owned by Hollinger International, and surprise, they are the same company that owns The Jereseleum Post. So in the entire history of this news tidbit, it was only printed once, on this paper, a paper owned by people with a vested interst in our destroying Hussein and occupying Iraq.

Also interesting is the "source", if you can call it that, of this article was documents this "newspaper" claimed that they themselves found, something you don't make very clear in your quote. Not one wire service, not one credible news source, right wing or left, ever picked this news story up, according to my friend Google. Not one government agency or branch of the military reported on it. The entire newspiece conssits of this one article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/17/wsad17.xml
printed by this one company:
http://www.hollinger.com/corporate.htm

The only way it has found currency is in right-wing chatrooms. It comes from a suspect news source using documents that somehow only they posses. Thank you for a fabulous example of disinformation in action.

Don't worry about it. it was more of an inside joke for the folks that have endured him. The only thing in common that you have is the is the lack of proof that you so rely on. See Kirk's last post as an example of what it is to back up your statement/position. (BTW, well done KV) If you want to be blind to things then check on liberties in Australia; and please, while you are giving up your right don't ignore/trample mine. Thanks.

What's in Huston that the islamoterrorist would want to attack? Really, I'm serious on that.

Must be Baghdad KY or is it Felluja NE?

__________________
72 W114/M130

RedMeat cartoon

85% of gasoline sold in the US is refined from crude about 6 miles from my front door. Keep in mind that al_queda is led by Saudis, and Saudis understand the oil business. 80% of all crude imported to the US is offloaded from tankers up around a bend in the bayou from here. You shut either one of those down, you shut down America as we know it. At the same time, the Galveston Bay area is one of the most heavily populated areas in the US. In a 50 mile radiius from the center of Houston there are about 12 million Americans, and who knows how many Mexican illegals, going to bed here every night. We have massive refineries, the largest concentration of them in the world, that produce pesticides, corrosive acids and toxic chemicals, which, if blown up just right, could kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. If they get ahold of a nuke, they will float it into the bay, in either a fake tanker or stolen submarine, and detonate it. They found plans to this affect in the caves of Tora Bora. A nuclear detonation in Houston, or a dirty nuke bomb that contaminates the refinery complexes, or a 20 mile wide cloud of toxic undiluted pesticide gas, and overnight the economy of this country will be destroyed. That is why I am so angry with Bush and his Iraq adventure, while Osama hides out in Pakisatan, an unstable country full of millions of people who sympathize with al-Queda, and a country that has nuclear weapons and submarines. I will do everything I can to see Bush defeated in Nov. Mr. Jake ought to give all of that some thought, because the prevailing winds will carry the fallout or toxic gas to his house in Ft. Worth.

the arab resentment is long standing. 'lesbians in leadership'
is new and rare.
few have seen firsthand our decadence.

they dont hate us for what we have, as some twit writers were
claiming in their shock after 9/11. they hate us for what we are
doing to them in their lands. corruption, subjugation, theft of
land and wealth, high tech remote killing; destruction in a hundred ways of their culture.

lesbians in church wont bother them so much, but women
boxers and football teams do. women footsoldiers? volunteers
while fat american men sit at home. this is decadent and perverse. this is what they dont want (etc.). they want the invader out of their lands plain and simple. then they can move
into the 21st century on their own if they aren't allready here.

and maybe if we get out and leave them be they might let us alone. you know, live and let live.

don

You and me both. Just showing how wide-spred the media bias gets (no matter WHAT "side" you're on.)

__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1985 300SD Auto - Runner.


=========================

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

Actually Kirk, it doesn't matter who gets elected or re-elected in November. The die is most likely cast. When the terrorists attack, they won't care who is in office or what their position is on Islam. This war is against western culture, they hate all of us. Terrorist attacks were high in the Clinton administration, and he had a fairly benign approach to these guys, other than occasionaly lobbing missles at them.

Appeasement is seen as weakness by this group of thugs and murderers, and force is the only thing that will stop them.

You are right about Houston, it would be a huge disaster if it was hit. I am not too sure about the prevailing winds affecting my house, as I am a bit west and north of Fort Worth. My family, however, lives in Lake Charles, LA and they would most likely be greatly affected by such a disaster. The entire Gulf Coast is a veritable targeting paradise, what with all the refinerys and chemical plants. The lower stretch on the Mississippi river is another waiting target, what with all those refineries and chemical plants, along with a couple of nuke power plants.......

by the way Kirk, nice SL, if only they accelerated like that NASA ship...

I would not want to see Houston go away, I used to live there in the 80s and my wife is a UH grad....



As far as the other post regarding giving up rights, I NEVER said that I was doing that. I firmly believe in all of the constitutional rights endowed upon us by God (dont get the wrong idea that I am a zealot, I dont even go to church, but what seperates our rights here from other countries is that the rights bestowed upon us are not handed down by the government, but by a higher power, thus ensuring that government cannot legally take them away.).

What I said was I believe that we are doing the right thing by shear logic and am not getting wrapped around the axle by details. For example, we know that Hussien used poison gas against Iran and later against Iraqis. We have satellite intelligence reports that, during the time we petitioned the UN for help in enforcing the resolutions, against Iraq, truck convoys were seen going into Syria. Could they have been carrying WMDs? Hussien was also uncooperative and deceptive. He was a threat, and we didn't even really need to use the WMD argument to go in. Bush SNAFU'd a bit there.

Iraq was a threat, we did the right thing even if your sensibilities are offended by how and why it was done.

I don't quote the papers or networks very often because of the slant they have makes most of their postings unusable.

The spin or distinction your putting on this gets closer to the point. Their society is at least as diverse and complex than our own and their knowledge of us come more from idle talk than any real knowledge of the way we live. They’ve got country people that to this day don’t appreciate what’s going on. They see more military activity than before, and know we’re there – end of data. The city people were for the most part the ones advanced by Saddam’s regime. The lack of what we think of as education, and a true understanding of the world is not common over there. They hear rumor and BS, but now their knowledge of us comes from what they actually see now. I'm sure that the end we seek is common to us all, but we must be sensitive to their culture regarding the means we employ or there may be no end. The violent expansion of Islam under the sword is not a majority view of modern Muslims. If the means we employ are offensive to all Muslims the terrorist camp will gain strength. We must take a step back and learn who and what it is we’re fighting.
They need to stop the race I’m watching and sweep the track or it’s going to get worse. We need to do the same with this “War on Terror” and employ some Muslim think tankers who want peace.

__________________
89 300E
79 240D
72 Westy
63 Bug sunroof
85 Jeep CJ7
86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius