I am new to the 104 engine and I am wondering if 5W30 is too light for a winter oil in this car. I always thought that in cold weather you want the first number to be low so that oil reaches the top end as quickly as possible. I would love to hear from anyone who has this motor and what then run in it during the winter and the rest of the year as well. Thanks for your help. I know that the previous owner used 10W30 in the winter and 15W40 the rest of the year.

Antonino

What does your owner's manual say?
Google on "Approved Oils Mercedes" yields many, many results.
For instance,

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Steve

It is a little different if you are dealing with "winter" in Tucson vs. Minneapolis: a synthetic 15W-40 might be a good year-round oil for almost all the lower 48. On the other hand, an HDEO in 10W-30 (say Chevron Delo 400 in this grade) would most probably do the same for colder climates.

My personal belief is that MOST 5W-30 oils are a little stressed in '91 era gas motors, the obvious exception being Amsoil's excellent HD 5W-30 oil which, though pretty expensive, could be used, IMHO, year-round and with reasonable extended drain intervals almost anywhere.

Cheers!

p.s. I use Amsoil AME 15W-40 year-round in my '91 420SEL.

__________________
'91 420 SEL @ 199K, '92 SVX @ 181K, '93 SC400 @ 86K, '93 Kaw ZX-11 @ 30K, '87 F250 @ 181K , 2001 Valkyrie Interstate @ 6K, Y2K Honda NightHawk 250 with 1.5K, '88 420SEL I.@ 179K & the 2nd latest, an '88 420SEL II.@ 210K runnin' parts car, '85 F150 300/NP435

Use Mobil 1 0W-40.

Everything else is second best.

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

I am sorry guys, I am in Massachusetts so the temp here in the winter can get down to single digits...I used Mobil 5W30, non synthetic, when I changed the oil last week.

antonino, I run Mobil 1 15W50 in our 1991 and 1992 300CE's year round. Temperature in Southeastern PA rarely gets below 20 degrees. The local MB dealers used Quaker State 15W40 mineral oil in these engines back in the early 90's ... before MB started recommending synethetic oil.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle

Mobil 1 0w-40

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

It seems like the only consensus is the use of synthetic oil vs. mineral. I also have a 78 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce and have and continue to use mineral oil on the unwavering advise of many who own these cars...I know the 300CE is a totally different animal...but I have always believed in mineral oil and change religiously every 3000K miles...can someone give me a sound reason to change to a synthetic for the Benz?

Antonino

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Check the link--They really like the synthetics.

REASONS

Uniformity in lubricating properties, extreme temperature tolerance both hot and cold. Uniformity in molecule size, i.e., every drop is identical in physical make and chemical makeup, mineral oil is far from it. Synthetics will not break down under extreme heat, and they will lubricate in extreme cold. They will not "crush" under extreme pressure loads as well.

What that means is if you looked at a bearing race clearance filled with mineral oil and one with synthetic, the later would fill the void perfectly with no gaps, the former will not because the molecule size is variable. Ad VI improvers, as refiners do to achieve greater range in multi viscosity performance and you have odd shaped oil and plastic vs. uniform identical perfect molecules of lubricant. Cold performance is phenomenal, as MO 0W-40 will lubricate engine parts at -10°F as equally as well as at 185°.

Go for it, stick with the a 5K change cycle and see what goes, I think you'll be impressed in the long run.

PS, check with a good MB dealer, there is a SIL on oil that is really quite good, covers the Mobil 1 issue with regard to older engines.

MG

__________________
Mark
========
THE WHITE FLEET
2016 GLE300d 4-MATIC 38K BROWN!
2012 S350 Bluetec==94k WHITE

2007 ML320 CDI==166K WHITE (FOR SALE)

Under new management:
2005 E320 CDI--140K--WHITE
1995 E300-Diesel-133.5K--THE CAR IS BLUE
1986 300SL--97.5K (European) AND WHITE. Back in Europe!
1991 190E 2.3-73K California Perfect.--WHITE
1995 E320-Wagon-159K--WHITE (recently scrapped)
1987 300D Turbo-213K--WHITE
1987 190D 2.5 Turbo-288K--WHITE

Where do you live and what kind of driving do you do? For normal use and short change intervals, I'm sure mineral oil is fine. For severe operating conditions or long change intervals, I'd probably want some of the benefits of synthetic.

FWIW my 300E has been run on synthetic and 7500-10,000 mile change intervals since new, and it has 278k miles on the original motor. OTOH, Larry Bible runs his 300E on dino with 3000 mile change intervals, and he has something like 300k on his.

Oh, and I run 0W40 year round. Good stuff.

You need a 40w when the engine is hot. The only way you can get a 0w or 5w cold rating without adding a ton of modifiers is to go synthetic. Go
0w40 or 5w40 synth year round. You can use 15w50 in summer but why bother?

Jorg

Thanks to all of you for weighing in on this and many of you make a strong case for changing to synthetic oil. Being a person of old habbits, it will be hard but it may be time to do it. My only reservation is that, like Larry Bible, I have always believed in "change it hot change it often". Since the car mostly does short runs and is one of 3 garage queens that does not go out in foul weather, I am a little anxious about going even 5K between changes. Oh well, time to sh_ _ or get off the pot on this one. One final question, if I do make the jump to the synthetic, do I need to add one of those motor flush additives prior to dropping the mineral oil or can I just drop it and add the synthetic? Thanks again for trying to teach an old dog a new trick.

Antonino

Antonino, simply drain the mineral oil and refill with synthetic oil. I follow the Maintenance Manual guidelines ... change oil and filter every 7,500 miles. As mentioned previously I use Mobil 1 15W50 all year in our 1991 and 1992 300CE's. If you're ultra-conservative you might consider changing the filter only at the 3,750 mile mark.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle

I'm kind of a Valvoline guy and have been forever, although I really like the Mobile products. The engine seems to stay unbelievably clean inside with Valvoline, as I believe they have an outstanding additive/detergent package, Castrol too. I've also done the hot and often process at 3K, and live by it.

Valvoline makes DuraBlend mineral/synthetic blend. Before they had pure synthetic, I used that, and when SynPower came along, I ran the 5W40 SynPower in the winter and the Premium Blue (mineral) 15W40 in the summer. I started with diesels (603,602 then a 606) and eventually ended up with two gas (103&104). In reviewing the owners manuals, I notice both all the engines really called for the same oils based on temperature. After years of the Premium Blue, I really liked the fact that after 3K oil change on the diesel, i could still see though the oil on the dipstick. For the first 1500 mile or so, and especially if I was doing a lot of highway miles, the oil on the stick was clear gray, and in the gas engines it's even better. I didn't want to give up the cleaning action of the summer oil changes in exchange for the synthetics, and at 3K, unless one beats the daylights out of the engine, there isn't going to be a lot of oil break down in 3k miles.

I got to the same point as you did, and I called Valvoline and talked directly to one of the engineers. He ENDORSED my usage for the very reasons I was concerned and actually wished they marketed the product lines like I was using it. He did mention most US car owners wouldn't use Premium Blue as like everything in the US, it's marketed for specific audiences even though as in our case (MB) specifically 15W40 is recommended for most driving temperatures, vs. most US manufactures have gone to 5W20 and 5W30 for fuel conservation.

As it worked out, November the SynPower 5W40 went in, Apr and Jun got the Premium Blue, and always with a filter. This is based on living in Minneapolis and driving 7-10K miles per car per year.

So, I hope this is helpful as an alternative. Good luck

__________________
Mark
========
THE WHITE FLEET
2016 GLE300d 4-MATIC 38K BROWN!
2012 S350 Bluetec==94k WHITE

2007 ML320 CDI==166K WHITE (FOR SALE)

Under new management:
2005 E320 CDI--140K--WHITE
1995 E300-Diesel-133.5K--THE CAR IS BLUE
1986 300SL--97.5K (European) AND WHITE. Back in Europe!
1991 190E 2.3-73K California Perfect.--WHITE
1995 E320-Wagon-159K--WHITE (recently scrapped)
1987 300D Turbo-213K--WHITE
1987 190D 2.5 Turbo-288K--WHITE

Unless you want to drive extended mileage between change intervals or need the wider viscosity range of a synthetic, there is no economic benefit for the additional cost.

For occasionally driven cars an API CI-4 mineral based HD diesel engine oil is a better choice because it has a better additive package than any current API SM oil designed for modern spark ignition engines regardless of base stock.

The commonly available mulitgrade mineral oil based CI-4s are 15W-40 (10W-30 is also available) and the viscosity chart in my owner's manual says this viscosity range is okay down to about 5 F IIRC.

You should change the oil once per year, regardless of mileage, preferably in the fall or prior to winter storage if you don't drive the car during the winter months.

The subject of synthetic versus mineral oil has been beat to death, so you may want to take a run through the archives. Unfortunately, these discussions are primarily a reiteration of the marketing hype for synthetics, which is motivated by their higher profit margins. You will rarely find any discussion of additives because very few have an understanding of why motor oil has additives, what they do, and why they are the most important factor in motor oil selection.

Duke