Let's play that game again: Online diagnsis - target: W202 C36 AMG - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

hk20000 · #1 06-26-2007, 06:30 PM

yup it's that time again for some fun fun diagnosis with a W202 C36AMG I found at the auction.

1997 model C36 AMG

I don't think there are many options to add to that so I'll skip it.

odo reads 155,xxxkm

the car starts very easily, idles very normally, no smoke. Engine check light is on.

The engine will not rev pass 3000RPM without showing major choking / hestitation. There is no smoke coming out of the tail pipe. Drives normal if you drive it below 2000RPM (easy enough with a C36)

all warning lights other than Engine check lights come on at ON position and off once the car is actually started. Coolant is in good shape no vanilla gunk no odd smells in the crankcase whatsoever.

what is a likely culprit? OVP would have had the engine shut before I could get it running, when my W202 C220 ran like that one of my sparkplug cable boots were shot and the spark just misses the plugs when revved hard. I fixed that with a replacement set of wires.

The C36 is rare, exotic in Mercedes fans hearts (first ever AMG Mercedes collabro - I bet it'll go up in price later as a classic) and at auction it probably will be sold at a very reasonable price.

My C220 that I loved but sold came from the same auction yard so it's by no means shady. And I would like a C36 in my stable very much.

If worst comes to worst, how much does it cost to rebuild an AMG 3.6 straight 6 engine? I'll keep that figure in mind when I bid on it tomorrow.

thanks for your advices and tips.

Arthur Dalton · #2 06-26-2007, 07:58 PM

Common sense would tell you to scan for codes..the CE is ON, correct?????????????

..forget OVP possibles ,..it does not use one.

ProV1 · #3 06-26-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

I bet it'll go up in price later as a classic

i'd advise against buying that car if this is your motivation. depreciation on AMG cars sucks ass and i really don't think W202 C36 is any exception, no matter how much you love the car. goodluck..

hk20000 · #4 06-26-2007, 08:41 PM

ah no that's not my motivtion but it's a good basis to think that the depreciation curve is more or less flattened to more normal ranges now since it 1) IS an AMG and 2) IS the one and only first child between AMG and Mercedes officially.

much like the E500 doesn't depreciate anymore because it's the one and only Porsche Benz collaboration production sedan it's a piece of history.

I just like W202 and C36 is like the most desired choice before there was C43. I reckon 6 cylinder maintenance would be easier than 8 anyway.

I don't have a Bosch scan tool though so the price of an actual engine rebuild might be a good ballpark figure to start thinking about. These cars still fetch like 16 - 20K on the market last I checked.

oh btw, is the C36 AMG among the batch of cars that have general electrical issues like disintegrating main harness and such?

Arthur Dalton · #5 06-26-2007, 08:54 PM

<>

You want to have the worst possible fix $$$ rather than scan the thing with a simple OBD2 scan tool??
Can't help you. I guess this is a game.. do you know how many possibles would fit your complaint ?? Do you realize the ECU menory would know a lot more about that car than all the answers you are going to get on this post??
Buying a car with the assumption that you would be covered if you figured in the price of a motor rebuild is certainly not a common practise.... and if it is an auction, I am sure you will not even be a close bidder with such a tecnique...
I'd sure like to see what the ECU says about the car, that's for sure..[ or any car I was buying w/CE lamp ON]

Will_w202 · #6 06-26-2007, 11:24 PM

my first guess is MAS, pretty common symptom and typical failure. SCAN CODES for $40 at MB dealer, for goodness sake

hk20000 · #7 06-26-2007, 11:25 PM

problem with this is that it's a 1997 car and it does not have OBDII plug (not until 1998 for Mercedes as far as I know?) and so it only has the Bosch diagnostic cluster under the hood - which is not what exactly you call a "common tool" 9 out of 10 mechanic's shop wouldn't have one (those that aren't specialized in Mercedes, at the very least) and so between today and tomorrow I wouldn't have any way to plug any tool into it. It's not going to work in time that's the issue.

So I'll ballpark its market value minus the AMG engine and set my upper bound safe.

I'm not too worried about the bidding I did bid a C220 at like 1/3 the market value at that awesome auction site.

All went well, drove that for a long time, loved the car and sold it for exactly how much I paid for it.

and now I'm going back for more W202 action. Only now I'm choosing between a 1997 C36AMG and a 1999 C230 Kompressor..... If no one heard about this weird symptom particular to the C36 before the auction goes ahead I might just end up with the C230K coz that car drives and revs just like a fine Mercedes should. Less of a headache for me.

But I do want a C36 if that's at all possible, for a lil resto-mod project and if it's a common problem I'd like to hear from you gurus.

Thanks for your time.

^ ya if I can drive it out of the lot and get the codes scanned I would, but the situation does not allow.... the cars are not licensed and are not allowed to be driven off the lot.

suginami · #8 06-26-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hk20000

problem with this is that it's a 1997 car and it does not have OBDII plug (not until 1998 for Mercedes as far as I know?) and so it only has the Bosch diagnostic cluster under the hood -

You don't state your location, but in the U.S. all model year 1996 and newer cars are OBD-II.

hk20000 · #9 06-27-2007, 12:35 AM

it's a Canada version is there any difference?

anyway I found the dealer that dropped the car at the auction and had a little chat with them (it's a local new car dealership - they even stuck their company's tag onto the C36 trunk so I found them with no issues)

and they gave me their reserve price and they say they will send me the shop quote of what needs to be done to get it back to "retail state" - all they know off their head right now is that it's a 4000 dollar repair work that needs to be done. My guess would be a full engine overhaul? Most electronics add together don't cost that much I would think?

How likely is it for one of those main harness failures to happen on a C36 AMG?

Anyway I suppose when I get my shop quote tomorrow I'll find out what really needs to get done with it.

I'll keep you guys posted.

blackmercedes · #10 06-27-2007, 08:39 AM

First of all, $4K CDN barely buys an engine overhaul for an older Honda Civic, and is a down payment on an engine rebuild for a C36.

Next, you're WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME by not reading the codes. That 97 is fully OBD-II compliant (heck, even in Canada, many 94-95 MB's were) so READ THE CODES. If you're an auction shopper you should have a reader. Handy for most people.

What is this "shop quote?" Forget it. My money is on fuel delivery, and the AMM is looking like the culprit based on the symptoms. However, if you want to pay $8K+ and have the engine rebuilt, by all means go ahead. I'd bet the same amount of money that the problem will persist on the new engine.

Now, if you're at an auction and they won't let you do any of the above diagnosis work, then either don't buy the car or take a chance on what needs fixing.

As for the "collectability" of C36's, forget it.

Arthur Dalton · #11 06-27-2007, 09:34 AM

<
As for the "collectability" of C36's, forget it.
__________________
>>

What ever we say is wasted words..he has already sold himself on the car ..no salesman needed. Just read his reply to any of our post.
Buy the car and then get the codes..then post them and we will tell you what you bought.

OzC36 · #12 06-27-2007, 10:48 AM

I suspect that there is nothing mechanically wrong with the engine from what is reported. More likely the MAS or something electric/electronic. But of course this is just pure speculation.

If it goes down at auction cheap enough, buy it. Don't offer what the dealer has told you is the reserve. That's very likely to be inflated and BS.

I suspect the dealer has worked out that he cannot get enough profit if he goes to the expense of fixing it before presenting it for normal sale (warranty?) and thus, has gone the auction route.

As Arthur said, "As for the "collectability" of C36's, forget it." These cars are only bought by nutters like you and me. There aren't many of us around, and therefore the price of C36s is incredibly low.

Put in a low bid and walk when it is passed in at auction. They'll find you later.

xvvvz · #13 06-27-2007, 01:12 PM

>>all warning lights other than Engine check lights come on at ON position and off once the car is actually started. <<

Shouldn't the CE light come on before you start the car as a check to confirm the light is actually working, too? If it doesn't, it sounds like somebody might have disconnected it so that it wouldn't stay on constantly. Shady used car dealers do that.

jlomon · #14 06-27-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hk20000

[LEFT]problem with this is that it's a 1997 car and it does not have OBDII plug (not until 1998 for Mercedes as far as I know?)

You do have an OBDII port. Sit in the driver's seat and look on the underside of the dash, about where your right knee would bump into. There is a small panel with a flip-lid that opens up.

OBDII compliance was law for all cars produced for sale in the US by the 1996 model year. However, that did not prevent companies from being OBDII compliant prior to that date. AFAIK the W202 was the world's first car to meet OBDII compliance regs.

I have a 1994 C280 and have been using my scan tool, bought at Canadian Tire for about $150, for the past two years.

Will_w202 · #15 06-27-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmercedes

My money is on fuel delivery, and the AMM is looking like the culprit based on the symptoms.

Like I said 9 posts ago.....

If you would rather sped time posting and reading instead of spending a half hour at the dealership to read codes, or you would rather just throw money at it, at least start with a $300 AMM