Mobil-1 changed their ATF formula... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gsxr · #1 10-04-2007, 11:12 AM

It seems that Mobil can't leave a good thing alone. They changed their Mobil-1 ATF recently to a new "Multi-Vehicle Formula". It has a distinctly different odor than either the previous formula, or the Mercedes ATF. What I don't like is the wording on the bottle - check out this text from the M-1 ATF "MVF" data sheet:

First, it says:
"Recommended by ExxonMobil for use in 2005 and earlier GM vehicles."

OK, that sounds fine for MB (Dexron) use. But the next sentence says:
"Mobil DEXRON-VI ATF is recommended for ... improved performance in 2005 and earlier GM vehicles."

So let me get this straight. It's The new M-1 ATF is "recommended" for pre-2005 GM vehicles (i.e., Dexron applications). But for "improved" performance in those same vehicles, we should use their NON-synthetic Dexron-VI fluid? What gives? Also, the new bottle mentions "Mercon" frequently, but says little about Dexron.

I managed to scrape up 7 quarts of the old M-1 ATF, and 1 quart of MB fluid, to use in my E500 tranny last night. I really don't like the acrid smell of the new stuff, along with the conflicting statements on the new bottle. Does anyone have more info on this new M-1 "MVF" ATF, or opinions in general...? BTW - the new stuff is also CHEAPER. Wal-Mart has it for $5.67/qt, where the previous M-1 ATF was closer to $7/qt.

Side question: Does anyone know if the OE/dealer fluid is synthetic fluid, or not? (Part # is 001-989-21-03-10, the bottle says "Made In Germany"). I'm VERY tempted to switch to either that (if it's synthetic), or Amsoil/RedLine ATF, for future trans fluid changes in my MB's.

mbdoc · #2 10-04-2007, 12:07 PM

The MB number 001-989-21-03-10 was replaced by 001-989-45-03-10.

Both are Dexron "based" trans fluids. You can safely use that fluid on any MB auto trans!

gsxr · #3 10-04-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.B.DOC

The MB number 001-989-21-03-10 was replaced by 001-989-45-03-10.

Both are Dexron "based" trans fluids. You can safely use that fluid on any MB auto trans!

Good info - thanks! But are either one of them a synthetic fluid...?

zcc · #4 10-04-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.B.DOC

The MB number 001-989-21-03-10 was replaced by 001-989-45-03-10.

Both are Dexron "based" trans fluids. You can safely use that fluid on any MB auto trans!

If you have both MB (not synthetic) and Mobile 1 (synthetic) ATF which one would you prefer to use on a 600SEL 1992 and a 560SEL?

gsxr · #5 10-04-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zcc

If you have both MB (not synthetic) and Mobile 1 (synthetic) ATF which one would you prefer to use on a 600SEL 1992 and a 560SEL?

If you can get the "old" Mobil-1 formula ATF, I'd prefer that over the MB fluid. However, you really can't go wrong with the OE fluid from the dealership.

After further research on the "new" Mobil-1 fluid (Mercon V), I've decided that I don't want to use it in my Mercedes transmissions. It's not officially Dexron-approved.

Palangi · #6 10-04-2007, 07:52 PM

If I'm not mistaken, they have stopped licensing Dexron, therefore no currently manufactured ATF can officially call itself Dexron any more.

300holst · #7 10-04-2007, 07:59 PM

I was looking for Dexron 3 recently and the stores had none. Lots of other ATF designations but no Dexron 3. What should I use to replace it?

gsxr · #8 10-04-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

If I'm not mistaken, they have stopped licensing Dexron, therefore no currently manufactured ATF can officially call itself Dexron any more.

Mobil is currently selling Dexron VI "synthetic blend" ATF, so they must have some kind of current licensing deal:

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_Dexron_VI_ATF.aspx

myanoch · #9 10-05-2007, 08:22 AM

Is part # z8001-107773 full synthetic ?
why is this one $14 a liter

gsxr · #10 10-05-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myanoch

Is part # z8001-107773 full synthetic ?
why is this one $14 a liter

Mike, that's what I've been trying to find out. Based on the price, it might be synthetic... but it also might just be a Dexron-VI synthetic blend fluid. Nobody seems to know for sure. For those wondering, Z8001-107773 is the WorldPac part number for one of the OE Mercedes fluids (photo below), Mercedes # 001-989-21-03-10. This was originally for the 722.6 tranny, and not approved for use in our older 722.3/.4/.5 gearboxes. MB Doc says that the correct number for our cars should be 001-989-45-03-10, which is WorldPac # Z8001-286630, ~$12.50/liter.

gsxr · #11 11-06-2007, 11:46 AM

I finally called Mobil - sorry it took so long, but I've been way too busy lately. Anyway, they said that it is not possible to certify a fluid Dexron-III any longer, because it's an obsolete specification. It has been superceded by Dexron-VI. That's all old news, we knew that. So, then I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI. Period. That's why it doesn't say "Dexron" anywhere on the label. They still want you to buy their non-synthetic Dexron-VI fluid for Dexron-VI applications, but make the nebulous claim that the M1 MVF should work in pre-2005 vehicles, they just can't formally put the Dexron-III approval on there. And, he didn't state if it did actually meet Dexron-III specs or not - I didn't specifically ask, but I bet he couldn't say, even if he did know the answer.

Another update: Amsoil's ATF appears similar to the Mobil-1 formula, but in a thinner viscosity to meet Dexron-VI specs. I'm not sure if Amsoil is officially licensed by Dexron, but Amsoil isn't shy about putting the Dexron name all over their spec sheets. However it still reeks like M-1 does. I tried this stuff in my '93, but I won't use it again.

Bottom line - Only Red Line Synthetic ATF has official approvals for Dexron-II, as well as official Mercedes approval (and it clearly states this on the label). I'd much rather use a fluid that has the official Dexron approvals, certification, and licensing. I added a new post later in this thread with more details on the Red Line ATF - skip ahead to post #51.

I sure miss the old Mobil... first they mess up their M-1 oil formulas, now they hosed up the ATF as well. If they ever screw up the Delvac-1 formula, I'll be switching to Red Line engine oil too...!

300B · #12 11-06-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

I finally called Mobil - sorry it took so long, but I've been way too busy lately. Anyway, they said that it is not possible to certify a fluid Dexron-III any longer, because it's an obsolete specification. It has been superceded by Dexron-VI. That's all old news, we knew that. So, then I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI. Period. That's why it doesn't say "Dexron" anywhere on the label. They still want you to buy their non-synthetic Dexron-VI fluid for Dexron-VI applications, but make the nebulous claim that the M1 MVF should work in pre-2005 vehicles, they just can't formally put the Dexron-III approval on there. And, he didn't state if it did actually meet Dexron-III specs or not - I didn't specifically ask, but I bet he couldn't say, even if he did know the answer.

Bottom line - Amsoil ATF has official approvals for Dexron-II, III, and IV as well as Mercon & Mercon V. I'd much rather use a fluid that has the official Dexron approvals, certification, and licensing. Here's a link:

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx

You can get a case of 4 gallon jugs for $144 (!) list price direct from Amsoil (that's enough for 2 Mercedes trans fluid changes). Yeah, that price is crazy, However, if you add the "preferred customer" option for $10, you get 'dealer' pricing, which drops the cost to $104, plus the aforementioned $10, plus shipping & tax. For me, it was $14 shipping, $6 tax, for a grand total of $134.27 shipped to my door. That's $8.39 per quart. I'm officially switched to Amsoil for my ATF now. I sure miss the old Mobil... first they mess up their M-1 oil formulas, now they hosed up the ATF as well. If they ever screw up the Delvac-1 formula, I'll be switching to Amsoil engine oil too...!

GM no longer issues the license for Dexron III thus no more labeling.

gsxr · #13 11-06-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300B

GM no longer issues the license for Dexron III thus no more labeling.

Did you even read what I said? Or any of this thread? Here, let me trim it down:

"I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI."

And to refresh your memory further, Dexron-VI is backwards compatible with Dex-III. So Mobil could have made their product Dex-VI compatible, which would by default make it approved for Dex-III. But they chose not to. The new fluid is only Mercon approved. Dex-III licensing is irrelevant.

C Sean Watts · #14 10-05-2007, 01:30 PM

I found out two things.
The MB fluid is not full synthetic (unless labeled) and it has a hydrocarbon tax on it, even if it is made for export. The last time I bought conventional motor oil in a PX in Germany it was $5.50/qt for generic for a lawn mower. The same tax applied in 2003.

I talked to a dealer (Ford) about this 6 months ago or so. My wife's car (SVT Focus w/ 6 speed Getrag manual) lists "Mercon V fully synthetic manual ATF" hence the head scratch when I showed them the SVT manual supplement. A senior mechanic (eventually highly recommended Redline - "That's all I've used in mine for 12 years.") said "Mobil synthetic without multi vehicle, NOT for manuals. Mobil synthetic multi vehicle works with anything listed." But for Chrysler ignore that and stay with +3 or +4.

I was hoping to be able to use the same fluid in BOTH cars but he was very clear about NO "multi vehicle" in an older trans.

pawoSD · #15 10-05-2007, 02:11 PM

It looks like we're going to start going with AMSOil....there's a dealer guy right here in town that has it at good prices....we'll start off with the transmission fluid (synthetic) but might switch from Mobil 1 turbodiesel oil to the AMSOil Synthetic diesel oil...as its the same price or cheaper.

We returned that acrid smelling Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF to autozone today...all 7 quarts of it. I am lucky...my car I changed the trans fluid back in May, so it was still the good Mobil Stuff.....I have half a quart left...and it does smell a lot different than the new stuff. Mine leaks nothing, so I should be good till next spring....when I will also switch to AMSOil in the trans....