I agree. They should be reliable. But my personal experience has told me otherwise. Both my cars are in my sig. My daily driver (1984 500SEC and 2001 S500.)

Keep in mind the newer cars have far more tech equipment. Hence far more problems will occur. But the quality of the manufacture in the newer MB has really put me off. Especially in the 2001 to the 2004 products. Many threads in this forum have suggested this.

I have spent roughly $7,000(not including tires and wheels) on my SEC replacing and repairing because I wanted to in aprox. two years.
Repairs on the S500 has topped $11,000 because I had to. I.E. collasped suspension two days after I bought it. Failed K40 relay. Failed navagation.
Failed ignition. Failed gearshift position sensors. On and on.
Search "S500 home at last" for more.

I love 'em both though. And, knock on wood, the S500 is now running beautifully.

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Selling used Mercedes parts on Ebay...always changing...
cdplayer51 take a look!
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That is a "better" question. Would I have a 15-20 Yr old W220 chassis...?? NO

Would I spend $ 4500 for a mid 90's MB with a M104 engine that needed a $2K throttle,
a 10 Hr head gasket job, or a $1200 engine wiring harness...NO!

I would have a 1970 250C or a 1985 300CD...

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

I have to agree with MB Doc. However, put me down for a 1972 280SE Convertible. I would settle for the 2.8 six as well.

I wouldn't say my 1972 280se was better built than say our current 124's.

The big difference for me is electronics. I don't like them and don't understand them. I can keep our cars on the road for a long time since almost everything just bolts and unbolts.

Some jobs are time consuming like water pumps and A/C, but still very do-able.

And almost everything makes logical sense....with the exception of the belt tensioner.

I am sure however that a newer Mercedes is a better ride.

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1989 300ce 129k
( facelifted front,updated tail lights, lowered suspension,bilstein sports, lorinser front spoiler, MOMO steering wheel, remus exhaust,stainless steel brake lines). (Gone)

1997 s320 154k (what a ride). Sold with 179k miles. Replaced with Hyundai Equus

1994 e320 Cabriolet 108k



1972 280se 4.5 153k Owned for 12 yrs, sorry I sold it


[/SIGPIC]

This is a fascinating theme!
I'd try to put in different terms:
When compared to the INDUSTRY leaders how do the current MBs versus the old ones?
In other words: are we still the best ?
How about the solutions proposed by the new kids on the block ?
Jorge

So far as safety, performance, handling and economy, I think the newer Mercedes are better built.
In terms of quality of materials and craftsmanship, like the type of wood, leather, and chrome interiors seen on the '50s - '60s cars, no.

In terms of reliability, Mercedes has over the past 10 - 15 years been rated pretty low compared with leaders such as Honda or Toyota, due to things like wiring harnesses that biodegrade, harmonic balancers that fly apart, Spring perches that dissintegrate, or power steering hoses that blow off the radiator because some engineer forgot that brass fittings for rubber hoses should have a barb or bead made onto the tip!
I have heard rumors that, perhaps, Mercedes reliability has started to improve on the latest models.

As for the excuse I've heard that one should expect teething troubles with cutting edge technolgy - I say a customer who pays the price to own a Mercedes, shouldn't expect to be the test driver for the carmaker.

And if we are to compare durability of recent Mercedes, to those of 30 or 40 years ago, perhaps we should hear from people that owned those past Mercedes when they were new.

Finally, as someone already mentioned, I believe it's going to be tough to keep much of todays overly complex electronic technology working when it gets to be 20 - 30 years old, regardless of whether it's a Mercedes or a Toyota.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

I know three people who bought W126 diesels new. One was a cop, who hated it to death, because it never would start when it was cold. For example he went out to dinner in the winter and the car would leave them stuck in the parking lot..this was a brand spankin new 300SD. Dealer couldn't figure it out, kept it for only a year and traded for a 300E.

Another was an attorney, he liked his. Bought a 1984 300SD. Drove it for three years and about 40k miles never popping the hood. It started to knock, traded it in.

Lastly was an owner of a trucking company. Bought it for his wife, wife hated, drove it for a couple of years and sold it to a dentist. Dentist sold it to me a couple of years ago, and now its gone.

The lesson is? The original owners couldn't care less they were just cars and dumped them quickly. Not all thats different from what they are doing today.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The earliest electronic fuel controlled systems that I'm aware of were the early D-jet analog systems - some of them date from the late 60's and I'm not aware of any significant number of failures and you can still find loads of parts from junkyards and FI control units are still available from MB.

BMW and Porsche started to use integrated fuel and ignition systems (MOTRONIC) in the early 80's - millions of these cars are still on the roads after nearly 30 years with no problems at all. I suspect the majority of the early E30's that are now entering junkyards are doing so with their factory installed MOTRONIC control units still in place and untouched since the day they were installed in Germany 3 decades ago.

I don't deny electronic engine controls can be difficult and expensive to fix but the fear of "black boxes" is a bit overblown IMHO.

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (137K)
13 GLK250 (157k)
06 E320CDI (341K)
16 C300 (89K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

Yes better body and engines that outlasted all, could be passed off from generation to generation, the new ones are nowhere near the old ones.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

Because suckers like us keep buying their cars of "high maintenance, poor quality, expensive electronic/computerized parts".

Where do you think MB's rust/corrosion warranty stand in the industry? You won't believe this. It is the lowest in terms of number of years and mileage. Take a look at the attached.

Attached Thumbnails

 

This is a good thread.

I have asked myself a similar question. Assume I'm planning on buying a new MB and have the following two options: Option A, go to the dealership this afternoon, pick out the MB I like, pay the nice man a fair amount of money and drive it home. Option B, (and this one requires a bit of imagination) step into my time machine, set the date back 15 years, and go to the same dealership. Pick out the MB I like, pay the nice man a fair amount of money, and drive my new MB into my time machine. Set the date forward 15 years to now and finish the drive home. Which is the better option? By the way, the time machine has a small quirk--any money transported through time is automatically adjusted for inflation. So to have $45k to spend 15 years ago, I'll have to step into the time machine today with about $66K in my pocket.

J. M. van Swaay

I'm probably qualified to comment on the subject: I have always done my own work. I owned a 220Sb in the 60's and a 230SL in the 70's. Now I have a W113 280SL and just bought a '95 E320 wagon. The older cars were simpler. As a result,when stuff went wrong, they are easy to repair. The newer cars ride nicer and have more power and lot's more gadgets: Do you really need 8-way adjustable seats powered by electric motors? Do you need a fully automatic climate control system? Do you need a "sound system" or would be a radio good enough? Do you need power windows and Airbags? An electric sunroof ? Isn't the purpose of a car to get you from here to there? My W113 has a manual soft top & manual windows. But let's look at it from the manufacturer's point of view: They can out-do the competition by offering a fully automated coffee maker built into the armrest and sell more cars because of that, or just get a glowing review in Car&Driver. The dealer doesn't mind and the repair show likes it too. And if you buy the car, you deserve it.

I commute 45 minutes each day in traffic. At my disposal I have my 82 300SD my 99 S320 and an 88 Volvo 240 wagon. I pick the 140 most of the time because of the extra creature comforts. When your driving a short distance the extra options don't matter. When the distance increases they become more important. The 140 is quiet as a tomb inside and has great A/C and a comfortable ride. I can talk on my mobile phone and people don't even realize I am in the car. You can't really do that with an older car.

There is a big difference in design and technology for cars. The newer cars have an advantage of technology. Electronic ignition and a myriad of other technological innovations that have made them easier to own. The older cars have design advantages such as the lack of built in failure. Quite honestly modern cars are designed to break no matter what lies the corporations spread to cover up their trickery. The simple reason is an economic one rather than an engineering one. Mercedes depends on customers buying new cars and servicing old cars to stay in business and to make their stockholders happy.

The older cars lack of technology supplied this revenue previously. Oil changes every 3K miles and spark plugs and other A and B services pay for a lot. The newer cars have 100K plugs and longer service intervals meaning less money. The money is really in that $700 computer module thats made from $20 worth of electronic components that they only have the information on.

As a car buyer you have to look at what features you value the most and the cost factors involved. I decided to go with a 140 because it was a good balance between some of the things I liked and did not like. While some of the features of the 220 and 221 appeal to me the repair costs and lower build quality did not. And of course the new 221 is really easy on the eyes!

The newer cars in general are probably not going to survive the test of time because of design issues. They have engineered failure in them. In my opinion the 1999 model 140 and the 2002 129 and the 1995 124 were the last well made Mercedes cars ever built. If you notice a lot of changes in technology appeared afterwards and a lot of recycling emblems started appearing on the parts. The "disposable era cars". The newer MB's are nice but they have a future date with a recycling bin.

I wonder what the cost of repairing a 220 will be when it's 15-18 years old. One look at all the wiring and electronics in those freaked me out!

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

I have only owned three 124 AMG:s and two G-wagens, but I find my E36 AMG Coupé and the G500 good enough to keep when I compare to newer models. They are almost bullet proof and there is nothing on the more recent models that I find "better", not even the looks.

Perhaps a future "Gullwing" I have seen on renderings would do...

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-94 E 36 AMG Coupé, Brilliant Silver
-98 G 500, Obsidian Black
-05 Mini Cooper, Solid Black
-97 993 Carrera S, Ocean Blue

The Subaru WRX and STi are pretty well built and far better than any MB C class I have driven, as for luxurious, well can't be compared, both the WRX and STi are geared toward sports based on their rally heritage.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT