Anyone know where I might get my AC charged near Boston Ma.

R-12 has been illegal for some time now. Also, AC techs with the correct recovery and refill equipment have let the equipment go since there's no business for it. If you find someone who says they can charge your system beware of what they might put in.

If you plan to keep the car, I would suggest having it professionally converted to R-134. You probably won't notice the slight loss of efficiency in your climate (Boston).

Good luck.

R12 is NOT illegal, repeat NOT illegal! The laws in some of the liberal areas have made it increasingly more difficult and expensive to deal with it, but it's not Cyanide!

If you can't find a shop to deal with it, you can go on line and get an EPA license for $15 and purchase R12 for about $15 to $20 per pound.

It is illegal to manufacture. What you are referring to is that there is some still floating around and if the shop has the correct equipment they can service the system. That's not illegal.

It is irresponsible to buy R12 fraudulently on eBay and they try to charge the system without the correct set of gauges and recovery system.

Not cyanide? Try ingesting a lb and see if the effect is different.

Is there a way to check for leaks before I decide what to use?

If you can find someone with the proper equipment, you would evacuate the system using R-12 gauges and a recovery tank. Then pull a full vacuum and see if it holds (overnight is best, 4-5 hrs is okay). When recharging the system, you can add a dye. However, most newer compressor oils have the dye in the formulation.

I DID NOT suggest buying R12 FRAUDULENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said, go online, get an EPA license and then purchase it on ebay. This is COMPLETELY legal.

You DID NOT say in your original post that it was ILLEGAL TO MANUFACTURE. You said that R12 was ILLEGAL. That implies that it is illegal to purchase and charge an a/c with R12.

ADDITIONALLY you DO NOT "evacuate the system with R12 gauges and a recovery tank." That is RECOVERING the refrigerant. Evacuation is the operation of drawing a vacuum on the system and is a separate operation from recovery.

Also it is not a matter of remaining R12 that might be "lying around." There is plenty of it available from multiple sources. With the EPA license it is totally legal to purchase all that you can afford.

Most refrigerant oils DO NOT come with UV dye included. The dye can be easily added, and oil charges with dye are available.

You need to get your facts straight before posting information.


OP,

There are several methods that can be used to perform leak inspection. If there is any refrigerant left in the system at all, most any auto a/c shop can use an electronic leak detector to search for leaks. This doesn't take very long, so the charge is minimal.

If the system still has enough pressure, you can use a soapy substance to look for bubbles, but this is my least favorite approach.

A properly equipped shop can legally put in a couple of ounces of R22, pressurize the system with Nitrogen and then check with an electronic leak detector. This is usually used for really difficult to find leaks.

If a system has a slow leak it is practical to charge the system and add UV dye. Then after running the system, use a UV light to look for leaks.

All of these methods have their pluses and minuses and the method used is usually detected by the equipment available.

Also there is a fellow that is a common poster on the aircondition.com forum who happens to be in Boston. He might be able to point you to a shop that can deal with R12. Also, since you're in MA where it doesn't get all that hot, a 134 conversion might be what you have to resort to.

Obtaining an EPA license when you don't understand air conditioning technology and then using it to obtain refrigerant which is supposed to be used only by a licensed technician is a fraud. It is defrauding the licensed technician or the shop they work for.

As I said yesterday at 2:03PM

"If you plan to keep the car, I would suggest having it professionally converted to R-134. You probably won't notice the slight loss of efficiency in your climate (Boston)."

Perhaps you could come up with something original?

Now, it's time to move on to something more productive.

Still made in good ole USA by Airesol in Neodesha, KS. They buy the R-12 from RACON in Wichita.

__________________
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98 E300 DT
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Well, I'm going to put my .02 cents in here. I always question why SOME people are always quick to modify a system from its original design and then suffer the consequences, often, unfavorable. The Mercedes Benz a/c system will NOT function as designed when converted from R12 to R134. As all the real mechanics and technical people on this site know, it just doesn't work AS DESIGNED. I have had NO problem with getting my R12 system charged/repaired at my local dealer. They have the equipment and expertise to maintain this sytem as it was intended to operate. R12 IS available for sale and as mentioned in earlier post, it is not illegal to use. I think the last 5 years it has cost me about $135 each time I needed to charge the system for the hot summers here in Texas. I purchased a 30lb bottle of R12 for $150 this spring and am now able to charge my system. I replaced all of the hoses and o-rings in the system, installed a new receiver/dryer and expension valve and can chill my beer and fog my glasses rather quickly now. Other members in the local MB club that HAVE converted, when pressed, will state that "it's not the same but close" about their conversion to 134. If you can't afford to do it right, maybe youcan't afford the car! Just my thoughts, not everyone will agree. BTW, '91 300E, 189K with the ORIGINAL a/c compressor AND R12!! BRRR, its COLD!

To begin with, please explain how LEGALLY obtaining an EPA license and LEGALLY purchasing the necessary refrigerant is DEFRAUDING a shop or anyone else!

Secondly, I offered 134 conversion as a LAST RESORT, not as a first suggestion as did you. My main point in this portion of my posts is that if one MUST resort to an alternative refrigerant, R134a is all that I would suggest.

Helping this gentlemen get the best performing a/c that he can get sounds pretty productive to me. If you would rather spend this thread debating the ridiculous phasing out of a very good refrigerant we can go there if you like. It's a pretty good example of some of the thinking that has driven your State into bankruptcy.

My compliments on a very good and thoughtful post based on logic and first hand experience!


Enough time has gone by since the practice of converting away from R12 started, for lots of data to be gathered. Conversion of an R12 system to R134a has not proven to be a good and economical strategy. Lots of FACTS to back this up.

In the political fringe states where R12 has been made very difficult to obtain or service, conversion is sometimes the only alternative. For those of us in states where it not only gets hotter 'n blue blazes, but also some semblance of political sanity remains, we are at least capable of staying comfortable in our older cars.

You are only stating the FACT. A car designed for R12 obviously is NOT designed for R134a. Am I missing something as an engineer or as a layman? As for myself, I would not hestitate to convert my MBZ to R134a. I have done all mine for under $50 each if no new h/w ( i.e. compressor, condensor etc ) need to be replaced. The breakdown is below for retail, not wholesale prices:

1) Ester Oil 8oz $10
2) New receiver drier, it varies. $12-25
3) 3 cans of R134a $21
4) O-rings $4
5) Bingo - you have cold air. I find it good enough in San Diego. I don't know what they were like with R12 as the MBZs had non functional A/C when I bought them. If it is good in San Diego then it probably is good enough in Boston.

my $50.02.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

Using your lowest total, which would be $47 if I didn't miss anything, I could fix the car for less STAYING WITH R12! 3 cans of R12 with some shopping and patience on Ebay can be had for $45 on a good day. Recharging with R12 negates the need for the other items on your list.

In addition, your recipe has a statistical average life before further attention be paid to the system of 2 years. This is backed up by lots of data recorded on hundreds of 12 to 134 conversions by a very reputable shop in Florida.

You did not define to the OP what your "bingo" consists of, if doing the conversion correctly. The "bingo" means dismantling all components of the system and flushing them thoroughly (oh, you forgot to mention the cost of the flushing agent) blowing everything out thoroughly, reassembling everything without messing up any connections, THOROUGH evacuation and charging.

I have converted quite a number of systems myself and have almost always had good INITIAL success. R134a is really bad about combining with any moisture left in the system to make an acid that will corrode holes in components from the inside out. On the 124 Mercedes, one of these potentially corroded components is the evaporator. The 124 evaporator replacement is a fifteen hour job for someone who has done it before. Sounds pretty risky to me.

I respect that you are a professional A/C engineer and I am only an amateur, but there are holes in your post.

1) You assume an EPA license to buy R-12. That may be a non-recurrence costs but it is a cost nonethess and is not included in your $45.
2) The rusting through of the evaporator may or may not be caused by the conversion, unless it was replaced when the conversion WAS done. The damage may be already there for an old car.
3) The same argumment is applicable to the cause of black death of the compressor after conversion.
4) Unless compressor/evaperator were replaced when the conversion was done, all this corrosion or black death were moot. They cannot be scientifically proven unless you have a 'control'.
5) Bingo means cold air. The sky is the limit to flush/change out hardware/redesigning to R134a./bigger condenser etc.
6) This is not a how low can you go issue but what can be achieved as an amateur. I can cut more costs if necessary, like no o-ring or receiver/drier change. Or just get a conversion kit from an Auto Shop.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.