Yeah, you go over to Germany and can find cave paintings of carbs! Sheeesh, get with the times!

Gilly

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Yeah, I bet Germans have no clue what a carb looks like. Mileage and pollution maybe, but I'd compare power any day. I tried a 900cfm Holley EFI for my chevota once. Mileage dropped 20%, and HP dropped even more, very dissapointing. After a month trying to get it to run like my carb I sent it back. I'm sure a real EFI would have been different, but beat the power of my carb? I doubt it. Cars I've dumped because of $$$ EFI trouble: Toy Celica, Honda Prelude, Toy 4X, and 300ZX. The EFI on my bmw works, but barely (it's gone soon). My old benz seems to run ok, but puts out 10 times the hydrocarbons it's supposed to (going soon too). Cars I've dumped because of a carb: None.
The computer and EFI are the only things that makes me nervous about my latest Benz. My other vehicles are all carburated and never leave me stranded. I know, behind the times, but I've been burned so many times it's hard to adjust uc.

A lost bet. Float carb invented by Willi

He and his bud Karl Benz were making cars only about twenty-five years before Louis founded his company.
And, of course, it would be another German who patented the standard injection system we all use today.

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Prost!

I know many many people will argue the horspower issue with you. I know there are plenty of drag racers who would say you are a fool. However, you are correct about getting better mileage and lower emissions from an EFI system.

Actually I thought I'd take more heat from you guys over that carb comment. Give it a little more time I guess.
I know efi has the potential to beat a carb, I just think we’re still waiting on a management system to make it happen. I don't want to know how much it would cost to replace my carb with an equivalent efi system, I doubt one exists anyway, so I still believe the carb is the way to go for raw HP.
I’m bracing for the abuse to follow, no foul language please...

Autozen: Help me out here if I’m wrong, but Lambda means a typical closed loop system correct? From my semi limited knowledge, efi cannot make good full throttle power in closed loop. And I think it may even overheat the ex valves if you try it (educated guess). From what I understand, the O2 sensor cannot accurately read the mix needed for full throttle, so it goes into “open loop” mode. Open loop is programmed from the factory to dump X amount of fuel into the motor, and like a carb, this mix is probably not correct.

Chevota,

I promise; no abusive language. Hopefully we are too civilized for that here. That being said, you keep saying you put EFI on your car. I don't know how you can do that. It is all built in. Are you talking about installing one of the last American holdouts to keep from joining the rest of the world? Are you talking about Throttle Body Injection? I don't consider that fuel injection. A cheaper version of that is used all the time in shops to move cars around with a dead fuel pump. You get an apprentice to sit on the radiator support and continually spray carb cleaner down the air horn. A true fuel inj system be it CIS or EFI is built into the engine. You mentioned Toyota. Have you ever looked inside the plennum chamber of a late model Lexus V/8. There is another small throttle blade for each cyl. Man, do those cars scoot.

The lambda system has circuits built in too take wide open throttle into account. The engines don't necessarily operate in open loop unless you have a sluggish oxygen sensor. When you punch it to pass, extra fuel is supplied to compensate for the big hole you created in the intake manifold with the wide open throttle. You are not running rich at this point because you are supplying air also. The mixture should be close enough to that stoic thing that lambda can send a signal to trim the fuel for optimum power. I am not an engineer so don't hold me to exact details. This is just my basic understanding of how the systems work in general.:p

Peter

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Auto Zentral Ltd.

Yes, throttle body injection is what I tried on the chevota. It was somewhere between the carb cleaner inj and a carb. It's supposed to be a great setup, but it didn't like me n I didn't like it.
If you're not running too rich for the O2 sensor, then you're not making full power. The sensor tries to make the mix ideal for emissions which are too lean for max power, and from what I've heard, too rich for max mileage. When the computer goes into open loop mode it’s spraying fuel from a “map” generated at the factory that says; “well, gee, hmm, were at 3Krpm, full throttle and 195degrees, lets dump X amount of fuel.” The fuel map in my Holley system was programmable from a laptop in the field. I seriously doubt that’s the case with a typical car. That system, and every efi car I’ve had, can’t operate fast enough to be as responsive as a carb. My efi cars have all been very sluggish at low rpm’s or of the line, and my Mercedes are among the worst offenders.

Re Lexus: Sounds complicated and expensive. I would break it for sure.

Yes that is right about k+N filters. Plan a day to wash and dry filter .Then oil the dry filter and pat excess over old news papers.You can always clean you maf afterwards,with cleaner.91 thru 94 Toyota trucks 22re are hard to clean,but will clean good.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran, deutschland deutschland uber alles uber alles in der welt

http://www.filterminder.com/

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'84 300SD sold
124.128

I bought some CRC Mass Air Flow Sensor cleaner the other day while picking up some odds and ends. Can someone point me to a picture of the MAF, or a schematic showing how to correctly access it. I've got a '89 124. Thanks in advance.

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Steven
1989 260E (276K miles)
1995 E320 (50K miles)

Your car does not have a MAF/MAS (or anything close).

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http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...-RESIZED-1.jpg
1991 300E - 212K and rising fast...

I thought I was going crazy. All these discussions about MAF's, and low mileage, and I couldn't even find mine.

Well, I guess it's time to adjust lambda again.

Thanks

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Steven
1989 260E (276K miles)
1995 E320 (50K miles)

There are only three possible benefits I can see to installing an aftermarket air filter, like the K&N: it is a permanent, cleanable, filter, vs. the cost of a disposable filter; it provides a performance benefit, either providing cleaner intake air, or more intake air, or both; it makes the owner-installer feel better.
Of these three, the most probable is the last. As for performance: the main restriction in the air intake is the throttle. Until the engine is at wide-open throttle, the air filter makes no significant difference in performance due to restriction.
As for cost, you can do the economic analysis yourself.

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Providing a home for these cars:
1951 Buick Special De Luxe
1977 Rolls-Royce Silver Wraith II
1970 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
1986 Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL
2005 Mercedes-Benz E 320 CDI
2012 GMC Sierra 1500 4X4
1927 Pierce-Arrow Series 80
1931 Pierce-Arrow Series 43
1926 Ford Model T coupe

K&N has a good article on their website explaining how they have NEVER seen oil on a MAF sensor. Also, they go on to explain that the air speed thru the filter never really gets high enough to dislodge oil droplets, even from a grossly over-oiled filter. Interesting article; but of course it's THEIR article.

My friend installed one on his '02 320E. after a while the MAF failed. Installed a new MAF - again lasted about 6 months. We tore it down, found fine dust all over the intake tubing, and under a magnifying glass FOUND DRY DUST & TINY SCRATCHES ALL OVER THE THIN-FILM SENSOR ON THE MAF. Didn't find any oil though.
He installed the 3rd MAF, cleaned the intake and bought a new paper filter - no more issues yet, been about 2 years.

I run a cold-air oiled filter on my Vette, cause I want max power and don't drive it under any but the best conditions. I'll never put one in my Mercedes, to gain "maybe" 2 HP and lose the OEM air cleaning capabilities.

As a retired engineer, I appreciate technology and data; but to me, just holding a paper filter and an oiled-gauze filter up to a light an looking through them is enough evidence to convince that the gauze filter could not trap fine dust as well. Try it sometime - kinda scary.

DG

Hey guys, which type of oil is best?

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth