dealer fraud on 500SE craigslist - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

85drtysthbenz · #1 03-11-2011, 03:29 PM

i go look at this car, 100 miles away from me

http://orlando.craigslist.org/ctd/2257552319.html

looks too good to be true, but i figure i would kick myself if i didnt at least go take a look....its a mercedes 500SE, meaning its supposed to have a 5.0L V8...as luck would have it, the cable for the hood release was broken....so, i wait 15 minutes for the guy to get a pair of pliers and pop the hood....lo and behold, there sits an inline six cylinder, not a V8....he tries telling me that some of the 500's came with six cylinders...im pretty sure they call those 300's, not 500's...anyway, strike one

i try to call and get an insurance quote on the car....i called at least 10 different insurance companies, all of which cannot verify the VIN on the car...none will write a policy...i do all the calling on the way to see the car, my mistake

so, i drive it...it drives out perfectly, shifts great, plenty of power ...idles a little high, but thats minor...the car is excellent mechanically speaking

i get back from driving it, and tell the guy ill give him $3500 cash if he can get me an insurance quote for that specific vehicle, he says oh yeah no problem....we go inside and talk to the boss....boss says have a seat and we will get you all taken care of....he gets on the phone with some insurance person and says he wants to get a quote for me on a "mercedes sedan"...not a mercedes 500SE, a mercedes sedan....i wait a few minutes and give him time to hang himself....after he has given all the car info, i say...give him the specific model and the VIN and see what his quote is....this is when he gets all defensive, saying he is wasting his time on me, he doesnt have to sell the car...he doesnt appreciate me trying to be all detective on him...all the while i have my wallet sitting on the desk, with 45 crisp one hundred dollar bills bulging out of it....so, i say **** it...i think im being tried here, you ****s are trying to commit fraud...im out

im not an expert, but i do know a little about mercedes...number one...if it came from the factory with an inline 6 it would not be badged a 500....and number two, if you are selling something that costs that amount of money and the customer has a stack of cash on front of you, you arent likely to get defensive about much at all...especially when they ask you something as routine as verifying a VIN

yet another wasted day looking for a decent vehicle

PaulC · #2 03-11-2011, 03:38 PM

The Euro-format VIN flummoxed the insurance companies...

85drtysthbenz · #3 03-11-2011, 04:13 PM

so, it appears to be a valid VIN...i just called the local tag office and they were able to pull up the VIN immediately...i guess every insurance agent in the country is a moron, because i think i called them all today

what looks to have happened is, the car is a 280, rebadged as a 500...not a crime, but certainly set off a chain of red flags for me

psychwarfare · #4 03-11-2011, 04:45 PM

Esurance never has an issue with the MB VINs...but I do all my stuff online in that regard...

ashedd · #5 03-11-2011, 05:27 PM

On a related note..

How did it drive? I have read that the 280's are plenty powerful, unlike the 300se. The only one I've ever been in was a hopeless piece of poop.

Bondavi · #6 03-11-2011, 05:29 PM

Pass. Odo's broke, thus the 81k miles is likely false. The 6500rpm tach is a giveaway it is a 6-banger as well.

http://orlando.craigslist.org/ctd/2251520161.html

There's a Gen2 500SE nearby: http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/cto/2186703660.html

But that's another "proud" dealer there, too.

Hit Man X · #7 03-11-2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashedd

On a related note..

How did it drive? I have read that the 280's are plenty powerful, unlike the 300se. The only one I've ever been in was a hopeless piece of poop.

M110s run well, the ECE versions at least.

The M103 in the W126 are slugs, I never would have purchased mine had I driven it first.

The car was nearly free and the PO was silly at best. The fuel economy is just as bad as the V8s around town (slightly better freeway) and you give up massive amounts of torque as you are always on the skinny pedal in the city. It is a shame MB never offered these in the US with a five speed manual.

That car is a 280SE, price seems high as it was an entry level MB but it is clean. Hold out and find one with a manual.

I have seen 420s rebadged as 560s all the time. Perhaps the dealership is just foolish and not intending fraud.

mak · #8 03-11-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashedd

On a related note..

How did it drive? I have read that the 280's are plenty powerful, unlike the 300se. The only one I've ever been in was a hopeless piece of poop.

If you were to try a European model 300se with a 103 you may be surprised at the brisk performance , Same story as with a W108 Euro 3.5 and a slower 4.5 USA specs engine. Ageing smog equipment bogs them down.
Regards

greenacres2 · #9 03-11-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85drtysthbenz

...i guess every insurance agent in the country is a moron

Not me. At least i don't think so.

Then again, i only work in life and health insurance. Okay, hanging around in health insurance in this media and political climate might qualify me as a moron.

Knowing how to sell cars doesn't mean a person knows cars. Just like many insurance SALES people don't necessarily know insurance. Those who know what they're doing don't usually make as much money per year, but we can do it with a loyal client base for a long time.

Good luck in your search!!

JohnM. · #10 03-11-2011, 08:53 PM

The M103 is no slouch by any means in the 300E and if you have FGS (first gear start), its even more respectable. Yes you have to redline the crap out of it sometimes, but that's what they are made to do all day long. I have full smog equipment and a larger alternator on my 180K M103 (which I'd say is VERY well sorted). I think with slightly heavier alloys, some stereo equipment, etc....it's very close to the 8-8.5 second range 0-60.

The curb weight of a W126 is 3616lbs, while the W124 is around 3525lbs. Did they not put FGS in the W126 (for that luxury smooth feeling from a dead stop I guess?). Was the rear end geared way differently? A well sorted 300SE should be able to keep up very closely with a similar condition 300E.

Hit Man X · #11 03-11-2011, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnM.

The M103 is no slouch by any means in the 300E and if you have FGS (first gear start), its even more respectable. Yes you have to redline the crap out of it sometimes, but that's what they are made to do all day long. I have full smog equipment and a larger alternator on my 180K M103 (which I'd say is VERY well sorted). I think with slightly heavier alloys, some stereo equipment, etc....it's very close to the 8-8.5 second range 0-60.

The curb weight of a W126 is 3616lbs, while the W124 is around 3525lbs. Did they not put FGS in the W126 (for that luxury smooth feeling from a dead stop I guess?). Was the rear end geared way differently? A well sorted 300SE should be able to keep up very closely with a similar condition 300E.

The LWB has to be near 3800lbs with driver and full tank of fuel... turn on the A/C and add a few passengers, fan clutch locks in the summer. Then the car becomes a total turd. I mean barely can get out of its own way from a stop light. The SWB is a decent vehicle, I have driven one as I owned one

It has a 3.46:1 rear diff, but with the second gear starts it is comical as I end up shifting the auto like a manual to make use of the gears. The 300SE/L should have came with a 2.88:1, first gear start, and a looser torque converter.

I agree on the 300E, I just received a free one early this year and have driven a few over they years... they are pretty sprightly. From memory the 300E had a 3.07:1 (minus the early with the 3.27:1).

If you are looking for a LWB W126, stick with the 420SEL. Less crap to fail, unlike the 560SEL, and slightly better fuel economy... plus about 45tq more around 1000rpm sooner over the M103 powered 300SEL.

MB should have offered the W126 with a manual in the US like BMW did with the 7.

This 735i I have came with a manual from the factory, I knocked down nearly 25mpg freeway on a road trip in OD from Houston to DFW with the same 3.46:1 gearing. It is only rated at 213tq and loafs along fine at 2500rpm in OD

mpolli · #12 03-12-2011, 12:51 AM

What does this mean "rebadged"? Rebadged by who?

Hit Man X · #13 03-12-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpolli

What does this mean "rebadged"? Rebadged by who?

What does it sound like? The 280SE was removed from the back and the 500SE was affixed in its place by a wannabe owner.

JohnM. · #14 03-12-2011, 02:01 AM

I really wonder sometimes what drives people to re-badge their cars. Comical. Especially on an old Mercedes.

They really should have offered a lot more manual transmission options over the years. I bet they would have eaten into BMW's sales a lot more. A 300E with factory "Sportline" suspension and a manual transmission would eat up any 3/5 series but the M3/M5 from the period.

But I must say that the automatic gear boxes in the 300E's are way better than your average slushbox. Just the way they shift under full redline load feels so "right" compared with any other automatic car I've driven hard.

jgranzier · #15 03-12-2011, 06:50 AM

My 89 300 se - isnt a dog , and if you mash the gas pedal -it is surprizing.

Yet I dont have a comparison to the other v-8 versions.

As I m well past any annual emmisions testing , are there thing that can be removed to help the mpgs , and or performance ?