Service from He.... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mbzman · #1 11-21-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

The prices seem a bit high, but not outrageous. I imagine that the cost of doing business in over regulated California is quite high.

No matter the state, the shop has to PAY to dispose of the fuel filter, oil filter and oil. It also has to pay for uniforms, building lease/mortgage, shop equipment, tools, an Alldata type of service, shop supplies, rags, fender covers, electricity, phone service, payroll, workmans comp, and possibly health insurance. So the shop simply didn't make an obscene profit by charging 5.4 hrs to do an LOF service, fuel filter change, sparkplug change, and CO setup.

Changing the fuel filter on these cars wasn't a gravy job when they were new. Today with deteiorated fuel lines and hoses, the task must be done with the utmost care. I could see it being billed out as an hour of labor to be fair to the shop.

A proper service takes an hour to do on these cars, they also take a hair over two gallons of oil and a somewhat expensive filter. It's Mercedes, not a Kia. I can see an hour of labor there.

We are left with 2.4 hours of labor:

The man paid for the knowledge in addition to the above mentioned items. His car is fixed isn't it? Most shops wouldn't know how or have the equipment to set up a CIS fuel system. I assume the car was running poorly and that is why the plugs and fuel filter were changed. Consider yourself luck that they didn't condemn the $$$ plug wires and/or equally $$$ cap and rotor. Figure 1.4 hours to inspect the ignition system and replace parts as needed. Most euro shops use a scope before and after changes to make sure the secondary igntion is up snuff. How many of you shadetree guys have one of those in your garage?

A good shop would inspect the secondary ignition and replace parts as needed before moving on to a fuel mixture adjestment. That is what they did.

An hour of labor to set up the fuel injection is pretty fair, considering the car has to pass smog and should be done with a four gas analyzer that again, none of you shadetree guys own. They cost thousands of dollars.

I think the real issure here is about the economics of spending almost what the car is worth in repairs, not what the shop charged.

I agree there are certain cost in operating a business but those costs of tools and equipment are usually paid over many times over at well established shops. Give me a break on justifying $650 dollars to change the oil, plugs and set the fuel mixture. An oil filter is $10, using dino oil should amount to about $30 and then maybe 30 minutes to have a look over the car. That kind of routine oil service and inspection at a good independent shop here usually runs between $80-$100. Add on the cost to set the mixture, replace the spark plugs and fuel filter and you would be looking at a bill for no more than $350-$400. Even if you take into account shop supplies/sundries, parts markup, enviro fee and taxes, $650 is GROSSLY overpriced.

E150GT · #2 11-22-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

The prices seem a bit high, but not outrageous. I imagine that the cost of doing business in over regulated California is quite high.

No matter the state, the shop has to PAY to dispose of the fuel filter, oil filter and oil. It also has to pay for uniforms, building lease/mortgage, shop equipment, tools, an Alldata type of service, shop supplies, rags, fender covers, electricity, phone service, payroll, workmans comp, and possibly health insurance. So the shop simply didn't make an obscene profit by charging 5.4 hrs to do an LOF service, fuel filter change, sparkplug change, and CO setup.

Changing the fuel filter on these cars wasn't a gravy job when they were new. Today with deteiorated fuel lines and hoses, the task must be done with the utmost care. I could see it being billed out as an hour of labor to be fair to the shop.

A proper service takes an hour to do on these cars, they also take a hair over two gallons of oil and a somewhat expensive filter. It's Mercedes, not a Kia. I can see an hour of labor there.

We are left with 2.4 hours of labor:

The man paid for the knowledge in addition to the above mentioned items. His car is fixed isn't it? Most shops wouldn't know how or have the equipment to set up a CIS fuel system. I assume the car was running poorly and that is why the plugs and fuel filter were changed. Consider yourself luck that they didn't condemn the $$$ plug wires and/or equally $$$ cap and rotor. Figure 1.4 hours to inspect the ignition system and replace parts as needed. Most euro shops use a scope before and after changes to make sure the secondary igntion is up snuff. How many of you shadetree guys have one of those in your garage?

A good shop would inspect the secondary ignition and replace parts as needed before moving on to a fuel mixture adjestment. That is what they did.

An hour of labor to set up the fuel injection is pretty fair, considering the car has to pass smog and should be done with a four gas analyzer that again, none of you shadetree guys own. They cost thousands of dollars.

I think the real issure here is about the economics of spending almost what the car is worth in repairs, not what the shop charged.

Fuel filter is cake on this car. So is the oil change.

Edward Wyatt · #3 11-22-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E150GT

Fuel filter is cake on this car. So is the oil change.

Sure, as a diy project it's not bad.

I have to run a business, and warranty my work. Shadetree work is not even in the same ballpark. Just because you changed the filter on your own car doesn't mean they are all cake. Fuel under 70 psi will find a leak if there is onem and I have to carry the liability when we service the filter on a car.

You shadetree guys get to come on here and ask questions if a job goes wrong, in my case I lose lots of money. That's why I charge 1.0 hours, if someone balks at paying that, then they should drive something less expensive to repair.

E150GT · #4 11-23-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

Sure, as a diy project it's not bad.

I have to run a business, and warranty my work. Shadetree work is not even in the same ballpark. Just because you changed the filter on your own car doesn't mean they are all cake. Fuel under 70 psi will find a leak if there is onem and I have to carry the liability when we service the filter on a car.

You shadetree guys get to come on here and ask questions if a job goes wrong, in my case I lose lots of money. That's why I charge 1.0 hours, if someone balks at paying that, then they should drive something less expensive to repair.

I understand the fuel that can leak on that car. I owned a 420sel. I decided early in my ownership that I would change the filter. I had no idea what I was doing. I had a LOT of trouble keeping the fuel from leaking. In fact I struggled with a leaking problem pretty much the whole time I owned the car. When I finally got around to addressing the problem instead of just tightening it up whenever it leaked. I did the repair at the shop with my mechanic. When he showed me how easy it was I felt so stupid. I understand that you are in business to make money and you have make enough to cover mishaps. I only commented because I know those two are easy as cake and can be done without a huge cost. If you know what you are doing, then you should have no problem performing the repair and not worrying about losing money. I dont know how you can lose money on an oil change. If the rest of the fuel system is in bad shape, that can be relayed to the customer before work is performed and if they refuse to repair the affected area, then they are at fault and not you. Kind of like when I did change the fuel filter, I did cause a leak in some of the rubber lines when I disturbed them. Had I dropped the car off I am positive my mechanic would have called me and let me know that they needed to be replaced and I would have to buy that also. If I refused and they broke thats my problem. People do have a choice. I chose this weekend not to use my mechanic or another I called to replace the oil cooler lines on my sd. The first mechanic I called would not install my aftermarket oil lines I had already purchased and would only use the dealer item. He quoted $300 for labor. My mechanic had no problem using my lines but assumed no responsibility for them. He quoted me $200 for the lines. I chose to do them myself.

pawoSD · #5 11-21-2011, 11:57 PM

Sounds about right to me. Oil change + spark plugs + mixture adjust is easily $600 in materials and labor at a shop. Heck just the materials for all of that is probably close to $125, fuel filter is not exactly easy to replace. Even around here the shops are around $105 an hour.

$950 is cheap for a series of seal replacements like that, thats a ton of labor. Anyone who has done those things on the transmission knows its a pain and time consuming to do properly.

Tomguy · #6 11-22-2011, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Sounds about right to me. Oil change + spark plugs + mixture adjust is easily $600 in materials and labor at a shop. Heck just the materials for all of that is probably close to $125, fuel filter is not exactly easy to replace. Even around here the shops are around $105 an hour.

$950 is cheap for a series of seal replacements like that, thats a ton of labor. Anyone who has done those things on the transmission knows its a pain and time consuming to do properly.

Actually, even before I read the other posts in this thread, I thought the same thing. I thought "For Cali, at a presumably competent shop, that actually sounds like a good rate". Have you done a fuel filter on a car before? If you don't have to drop the tank you're lucky (most MBs, at least the older ones like the w126, you don't). But that doesn't make it easy with old fuel lines that probably fall apart on removal of the filter and the shot mounts like Edward pointed out. It's a fair rate, not the best, but a fair rate. But the trans - I think that was a steal. You need to do a fair amount of work to replace the front seal on the trans, considering last I checked you have to remove it from the engine. I think most of the people saying that the OP was ripped off have not used a mechanic in quite some time for larger repairs. Car work is EXPENSIVE. I haven't had anyone touch my vehicles in quite some time for this reason.

cbc atl · #7 11-22-2011, 03:29 AM

So, his car has the same KE ignition system as your CE and could have the same trans. How do you have your plugs and oil changed. Maybe you can help the old man out and do this for him next time; bet he has a few stories to tell while ya'll are out there.

A couple of contractor trash bags to catch the oil, oil filter, plugs, trans oil, gasket, trans filter, couple of bolt and washers would probably be less than $100. Guess you will not have to replace those seals again in 30,000 miles. Then you could wash it for him too and then go for a nice ride.

Then you would not have to give that shop a fU(#ing dime.

Oh, and see if it has that diagnostic plug like yours that you can put a multi-meter on and set the duty cycle. Look at the rotor and dist cap as someone mentioned above and maybe even replace his coil and wires. No need to let a shop do that either.

Edward Wyatt · #8 11-22-2011, 08:42 AM

[QUOTE=cbc atl;2832669]

A couple of contractor trash bags to catch the oil, oil filter, plugs, trans oil, gasket, trans filter, couple of bolt and washers would probably be less than $100. Guess you will not have to replace those seals again in 30,000 miles. Then you could wash it for him too and then go for a nice ride.

Then you would not have to give that shop a fU(#ing dime.

QUOTE]

Yeah, it's alright for you to use trash bags to catch the oil and filters, but I have to pay to dispose of those items. I guess it's ok to pollute the in the name of not giving the shop a fU***** dime, right?

Replacing "those seals" involves removing the transmission, ever done that before? I didn't think so, or else you would know it takes specialized equipment and lots of time, not a Harbor Freight set of sockets and reading MB forums on the internet.

Edward Wyatt · #9 11-22-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbc atl

Oh, and see if it has that diagnostic plug like yours that you can put a multi-meter on and set the duty cycle. Look at the rotor and dist cap as someone mentioned above and maybe even replace his coil and wires. No need to let a shop do that either.

Unless you want the car to pass a smog test and run correctly. The proper way to set the mixture on a CIS car is to use a four gas analyzer, anything else is just a good guess.

Edward Wyatt · #10 11-22-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbc atl

So, his car has the same KE ignition system as your CE and .

For the noobs, the above comment is wrong.

KE refers to the fuel injection, as in KE-Jetronic. The K stands for the German word for continuous: "Kontinuierlick", and the E is for electronically controlled. In contrast to the early K-Jetronic used in the '70s that was a pure mechanical system.

The igniton system is refered to as the "EZL".

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

LandYaghtLover · #11 11-23-2011, 12:31 PM

I could read the whole thread, but it was getting ugly.

There should have been an estimate. Generally if gone over the shop contacts the person. In some states, there is an actual law for this. Sorry if thats been mentioned.

Hit Man X · #12 11-23-2011, 03:42 PM

I will not even post my comments much past this. Figure labor around $100/hr and the fact to replace the leaking front seal on the trans requires it to be removed then reinstalled in addition to the repair. This is usually 5-7 hours by itself.

In reality, I am more concerned how the reaction times/quality of driving is of this 92 year old driver along with any potential safety issues they cause on the roads. Around here this age group is very poor at driving. But hey, I guess that is too taboo to discuss...

If you do not like the pricing, go fix it yourself. This thread is pointless and should be deleted or locked.

E150GT · #13 11-23-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hit Man X

I

In reality, I am more concerned how the reaction times/quality of driving is of this 92 year old driver along with any potential safety issues they cause on the roads. Around here this age group is very poor at driving. But hey, I guess that is too taboo to discuss...

If you do not like the pricing, go fix it yourself.

Yep thats why I own a Merc. Grandma and Grandpa are way too old to be driving.

dubadaddy · #14 11-25-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hit Man X

I will not even post my comments much past this. Figure labor around $100/hr and the fact to replace the leaking front seal on the trans requires it to be removed then reinstalled in addition to the repair. This is usually 5-7 hours by itself.

In reality, I am more concerned how the reaction times/quality of driving is of this 92 year old driver along with any potential safety issues they cause on the roads. Around here this age group is very poor at driving. But hey, I guess that is too taboo to discuss...

If you do not like the pricing, go fix it yourself. This thread is pointless and should be deleted or locked.

Don't you guys worry he doesn't drive anymore.

What the heck does that have to do with the original question??

benzme · #15 11-23-2011, 09:06 PM

This is so hijacked and OT I may as well unload too. Some of the best local old MB's I've seen have been from grannies and grandpas. One old gal has a 124 300D with 60k on it.

Long may she drive but then I want it

.

And sort of on topic, although an easy job I took my TE to the mechanic to change the VFC. I just ran out of time and gave him the part. Cost $99 but he lets me supply the parts so i'm more than happy.