Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-15-2021, 03:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 21
High Mile 560SEL: Lifter or Timing Chain Noise?

I've recently purchased a lovely black/black '89 560SEL with rather high miles (424k) under the pretense that it needed a timing chain. It has a constant clack that is present on cold starts, hot starts, and during operation. I maintain my belief that the noise is from the timing chain, however a friend mentioned that the issue could be a lifter.

Based on the assumption that the issue is timing chain related, I swapped on a used spare tensioner, to no avail. I assume that either A. the used tensioner was worn also, or B. my chain is so stretched that any normal amount of tension would be insufficient. I'm a bit conflicted with purchasing a new one when I inevitably do the chain, because it seems that the FEBI part is of very inferior quality and a new MB part darn near totals my car haha.

The link below is a video of the engine idling and I assure you there will be no problem hearing the noise.
https://youtu.be/pjyHeQFBVdo

Thanks all for any input!

__________________
1986 190E 2.3-16 202k
1987 300SDL 384k
1987 300SDL 295k (1 of 1 Dark Green over Maroon)
1988 300TE 129k (sold to buy cossie)
1989 560SEL 424k
1990 560SEL 288k (sold)
1992 300E 131k
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-15-2021, 09:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,765
Can you find an Iwis brand chain?
__________________
"Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength" - Eric Hoffer
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-15-2021, 10:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: bellevue, wa.
Posts: 178
I've done the timing chain job on the m117s, oh, maybe a 100 times. That isn't going to be timing chain noise in your video. You hear timing chain noise at start up and it's a rattle, not a knock. I'd be willing to bet that's a flat(worn) cam lobe or a worn lifter or both if the noise is coming from the top end.
;

Last edited by paul roberts; 10-16-2021 at 11:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-16-2021, 10:36 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: los angeles
Posts: 814
That is 100% lifter noise, check your cam or lifter rockers for excessive wear
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-16-2021, 10:41 AM
oldsinner111's Avatar
lied to for years
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 6,246
plastic cam oiler's? did you replace to aluminum?
__________________
1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-17-2021, 10:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: bellevue, wa.
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsinner111 View Post
plastic cam oiler's? did you replace to aluminum?
I think that you're referring to the m119 engine. His is a 117.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-18-2021, 08:20 AM
Tomguy's Avatar
Vintage Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: near Scranton, PA
Posts: 5,407
I agree that this sounds like a cam was roasted by plugged cam oiler tube(s). And it's probably both cams. Any hydraulic m116 or m117 cam from 3.5 to 5.6 will fit to replace it (may have different timing but worst case is you get a little better performance as most 5.6s are de-tuned), just use either new rockers, or the rockers from the car the replacement cam came from in the same spots.

My m117 sounded just like this when I had roasted a few cam lobes on my passenger-side cam; the driver's side cam was in better shape but only slightly.

Note: Unless the chain was replaced, it would likely be a good idea, the excess stress from cam wear due to lack of lubrication likely stretched it further, so it should be done at the same time.
__________________
Current:
2021 Charger Scat Pack Widebody "Sinabee"
2018 Durango R/T

Previous:
1972 280SE 4.5
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "Hefe", 1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo "Jeepy", 2006 Charger R/T "Hemi"
1999 Chrysler 300M - RIP @ 221k

Last edited by Tomguy; 10-18-2021 at 08:40 AM. Reason: added note for replacing chain
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-18-2021, 11:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 21
Thanks all for responses, I will "change gear" and focus on cams and lifters. Just prior to taking that video I had the valve cover off to inspect the chain and I will post some photos below. Being new to this sort of maintenance, I'm curious as to what constitutes major cam wear. I did notice some scoring but I wasn't sure how much would cause issue. I have attached some photos and I will note that the lobes felt largely smooth apart from the dark portion on the lobe I detailed. I suppose cam wear on an engine with well over 400k miles is relatively normal and not indicative of any major issues, or is this a sign of failed cam oilers?
Click image for larger version

Name:	camwear.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	227.0 KB
ID:	163515

Click image for larger version

Name:	fullcamview.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	342.3 KB
ID:	163516

Click image for larger version

Name:	valvespringsmarking.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	230.5 KB
ID:	163517
__________________
1986 190E 2.3-16 202k
1987 300SDL 384k
1987 300SDL 295k (1 of 1 Dark Green over Maroon)
1988 300TE 129k (sold to buy cossie)
1989 560SEL 424k
1990 560SEL 288k (sold)
1992 300E 131k
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-18-2021, 12:05 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Modesto CA
Posts: 4,078
ba:
Based on the pics of the cam that you have posted, look for a leaking hydraulic compensator, aka, "lifter". If the left side cam lobes look as good as the right, then they are not the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-18-2021, 09:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: los angeles
Posts: 814
To find a single bad lifter, use a feeler gauge maybe .010 and try to find a "loose " fitting rocker arm might need thicker or thinner gauge, slip it between cam and rocker arm

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page