talk about the damn problems. and then someone said something different about reliability ?
last week the 260E started throwing warm air from vents regardless of the temp control setting. back to the dealer it is
got a call back. $900 for the evaporator which is A/C related along with another part. Now for the warm air, I've already been warned by the dealer that the labor will be astronomic ! they'll call me back for estimates. now if the dealer himself is saying something to be 'astronomic' i can't even imagine what it would be in terms of sky high dollar figures !
for the amount i've spend on this damn car so far, $6000 in the past two years, and ongoing, I could've very well bought another used car for that much !

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

Benz300: I'm sorry to suggest that you have spent $6000 on your Benz in two years while I have 200,000 miles on my C280 and have NEVER spent a dime for any type of repair at any dealer. I have only spent money changing oil/filter/ tires/battery. But nothing has ever given me any problem. I have been told that the Mercedes is a low cost, low maintenace vehicle and I guess I am lucky that this has been true for me. The only thing I might add is that I'm the only driver, no kids, and I don't abuse my car. So far it runs like new and I don't know when it will wear out. This is a good thing.

One reason people like Itellichoice rank MB at the top of each category for lowest cost-of-operation is motly thanks to low depreciation expenses.

Depreciation is the single largest cost for any new car buyer. Keep the car for 20 years and you'll never come close to spending more on repairs than on depreciation.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I think its luck of the draw. I've had cars I've driven for a year and just put gas in, others I've poured 1,000's into with no apparent logic.

Peter F: If you continue to praise your car and its trouble free ways, Its gonna crap out on you. Call me superstitous, but thats just the way it is.


Mike

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'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

[QUOTE]Originally posted by itb76
Bugs bite Mercedes quality
Glitches lead to go-slower approach

By Diana T. Kurylko
Automotive News / September 15, 2003

FRANKURT -- Top executives at Mercedes-Benz admit that a wave of increasingly complex electronic products proved so difficult to debug that the German automaker is modifying its first-at-all-costs approach to technology.


I have worked for two of the major aircraft manufacturers since 1987 and now work at NASA. My work has always focused on improving flight deck pilot features. One saying that Boeing always had was that their approach toward flight deck change was "evolutionary as opposed to revolutionary". Perhaps this latter statement has something to do with the current MB situation. I say this only because it seems that there has been an exponential leap in the options/technology on MB cars over the past, say, 6 years.

As you increase the frills on any device, it will usually require more monitoring and the overall mean time between failure will also usually begin to increase. I am a confirmed MB fan, but I do have issues with the modern MBs. Too much fancy stuff on them that are what we would call "desirements" as opposed to "requirements".

While I am not resistant to technology, my feeling is that you should use technology only when there is a demonstrable "problem" that will increase safety or reduce operator workload. An example from MB's newer models: does Distronic really add to increasing driver safety? What happens when I am driving on a road with alot of curves? How will the radar on the car react? Or an electronic trunk closer? Can't I walk around and close the trunk myself? Seems like it would be better (and cheaper) to make sure that students in drivers ed classes learn good driving techniques [i.e., maintain sufficient distance between the cars in front of you under differing road conditions and to modify driving habits on different roads].

I am a full blown capitalist and if the market wants these neat options, fine. Just be prepared to pay the potential cost of the increasing complexity down the road (pun intended). These systems (and ones I have not even mentioned) are complex. Sensors are required for system health and so is radar. These things can fail (of course, you can take the 10^-9 aero reliability standard, but that will cause the prices to shoot up further).

Perhaps MB needs to take a lead from the aero field and stop trying to implement technology for the sake of implementing technology. But again, the car and aero markets are different in the sense that if someone will pay for some neat but unnecessary auto feature, it will probably find its place on the next car model. In aero, you have to PROVE to the airline bean counters that a feature will inclease safety, improve passenger comfort, decrease pilot workload, or improve operations and reduce maintainence costs. Hmmmm. Interesting contrast, huh?

A wise engineer once paraphrased an old saying: if you have a technology hammer, everything looks like a problem nail. When you consider a new generation aircraft, you don't start with a blank slate--you start with the systems that are known to work and then identify issues that are causing problems. Systems that are proven to work are kept the way they are. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. From this baseline, only then are new systems even considered. And it usually takes a decade from when a plane is first conceived to when test flights begin.

People who look into cockpits when they fly on commercial planes probably think that every new aircraft comes out with 100 new features. Not true. In the last 15 years, the major systems that have been added are terrain collision avoidance systems, wind shear systems, and improved landing capabilities for low visibility ops. Some of the biz jets and a small number of commercials who fly into really bad visibilities have added enhanced vision systems, but most commercial aircraft do not yet have this latter feature.

The most current work is being done on providing aviation weather from the ground to the cockpit and turbulence alering. Some of the weather systems are now on GA airctaft, but the commercials are still waiting to see what the best system will be. I've been working on both of these areas for the past 4 years on the commercial side and we are still working with the manufacturers to test them.

The difference I see between air and auto is that the high end car companies are putting all sorts of new features on their cars, which (a) add to the complexity and (b) are "nice to have" things.

I drive a MB because I have found it to be a reliable car, it is a very comfortable car to drive on long trips, it has very good safety features, will last decades if it is cared for by the owner(s), and I find that is handles very well under all sorts of road conditions. I have never bought a MB new, but waited 3 or 4 years and bot used after careful inspection. I have a good MB dealer.

Just my two cents as someone who works with hi-tech everyday.

- Jon

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- Jon E320 210.055

90 Wrangler
77 Mustang 307,000 mi
63 T-Bird [fully restored]

Jon: I've driven my MB 200K miles because others who have them in my neck of the woods told me they requier the least manitenance of most any other vehicle on the market. So far I have not been mislead. I have never had to "take" my car in and all I've ever done is use and change my oil. Castrol Syntec 5w50. My impression is that these cars, in most cases, are trouble free. Of course I have always bought new cars and I am the only driver. Frequently I think some of the problems we experience with cars is the fact that we allow our kids or others to use them, and I think sometimes they, MB included, are abused. I know when I was a kid I managed to "brake" my Dad's Caddys on a regular bases and he always thought it was declining quality of Cadillacs. Go figure. What say you?

Benz300:

I would ask the dealer how a new evaporator is going to address the warm air issue.

Actually, I'd take the car elsewhere for service.

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Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"

Oh well, paid $800 to the dealer for A/C for freon leaking components, only to find out that the vacuum actuators are malfuntioning which requires 9 hours of labor at 98/hr and then parts on top of its. Which means the 800 I've already spend obviously are no good till I get the AC/Heat fixed by getting the vacuum system fixed.
DAMNNNNN IT !!! Why couldnt the system be easy as my Toyota Corolla ??? back to the point I made initially !

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

Jon Hrut:

I might add that component reliability is FAR more crucial when you are traveling at altitudes of 35,000 feet or so!!! Hence the FAA mandate of what technology goes in and what does not.

Can't just pull over and push the "OnStar" button if something fails...

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2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car

Post '85, the glut of electronics and other stuff that can't be fixed but only replaced AT GREAT COST makes the rep of Mercedes as a "20 year car" moot. In the future, some electronic and other service components will simply cease to be available, which will make depreciation of whatever value is retained immediate and precipitous.

If you look at the great automobiles of the classic era...Locomobile, Silver Ghost Rolls, Packard, Pierce-Arrow, etc....the fact that they were expensive was a function of the fact that they were expected to last about as long as a house. Auto historian Richard Burns Carson refers to the '38 Cadillac as "...the world's first disposable luxury car." Post '85 MBs depart from the honorable "value added" approach which resulted in almost "permanant" cars (Henry Leland's phrase). Now they're just jumped-up sucker bait, built to a price (with a huge profit margin built in) not THAT much better than an Accord or Camry.

My perception, right or wrong, is that Volvo got away from building really durable cars also. Does anyone make them anymore?

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

I have heard from three people in the past 3 weeks NOT to own a new MB after the warrenty runs out. two of them worked for Mercedes and the other person had owned one and immediately got rid of it after the warrenty was up. Personally, I hate to see it, especially taking into consideration how long it takes to establish a reputation for well built cars.

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Jim

Here's what I think, and it and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.

1. You must (MUST) have a good mechanic.

2. You need to invest in preventative maintenance.

3. You need to drive the cars as they're meant to be driven.

If you do all three, then you'll have a relatively reliable ride for the least amount of money.

I love my '84 380 SE, and she seems to run better after a delightful hour's drive at 80 mph on State Rt. 99 north of Los Angeles. (I'm not saying exactly where, just in case any CHP officers are reading this.):p

Gemoore: I stay away from "mechanics" and I think thats why my car has worked so well. I ever got 80K miles on the brakes, which I replaced myself. An easy job. But I have never changed the brake fluid or much of any thing else. A new HVAC cabin filter, air filter and plugs at 100K miles and thats about it. Oh, I did have a 94 Honda Accord, but I sold it When the rear fenders started to rust out. Bummer. Probably would not but another Honda because in this age of all sorts of high tech, I don't think a car should rust out, period. That turned me off. Thus my good luck with my MB.