Is merecedes too troublesome ? - Page 14 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

G-Benz · #1 09-08-2003, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by haasman
I was told the right-rear on the 201 and 124 cars most frequently fail. It is guessed that is due to a car most likely being parked where rain would drain into the cable-regulator setup and corrode the motor and its worm gear.

This is the only one I have replace.

Haasman

I had to replace BOTH within a year of the other's demise. And the left one went out first. And rain in Texas is infrequent anyway.

Also, there was nothing wrong with the cable assembly or motor...the little $2 plastic track slider self-destructed in both units!

Cap'n Carageous · #2 09-08-2003, 12:48 PM

My right rear on my 124 didn't work when I got the car. The switch was bad so I replaced it. Still didn't work. Took the regulator out with normal blood loss for a Mercedes job(:p ). Worm gear was corroded to the cheap plastic gear and had stripped it out. I swear that thing looked like something from a sunken ship!! IMHO it's a pretty cheezy design for a $45,000 car.

#3 09-08-2003, 01:01 PM

The early rear window regulators on W201's went through at least two redesigns. We had to have ours replaced (under warranty) twice. Eventually the problem was fixed and we had no further trouble until we sold our 18 year old 190D.

The only window problem I've had with my '91 300E is that the switches need to be worked occasionally.

I believe that Mercedes began to fall off after 1992 when the company was no longer controlled by engineers. Up until that time, the engineers designed the car BEFORE it was priced.

Peter Fearing · #4 09-08-2003, 07:56 PM

Keep in mind that muffler bearings on the 303 @411 tend to completely lock up and the car can only be driven in reverse for no more than 10 miles. If you don't do this exactly the engine will blow up and the entire car will have to be repaired at a cost of over $100,000.

Benz300 · #5 09-13-2003, 03:20 AM

Just developed bad vacuum lock on one of the doors in the 190E. Noticed that a recent thread has been developed regarding the same exact issue.
Yet another expense that I've never had to bother with my corolla !

I wonder why mercedes used the vacuum locks to begin with. could someone elaborate on that.. ?

Benzwood · #6 09-13-2003, 04:58 AM

Hmm... maybe part of the reason you haven't had that expense with your 1987 Corolla is that (if I'm not mistaken) your Corolla has manual door locks?

So, the good news is your MB is working just as well as your Corolla that you like to compare it to... just reach over and pull that lock up by hand!

I don't know why MB uses vacuum door locks. I had a VW Jetta that also did if I remember correctly. Maybe in theory it is more reliable than an electromechanical system, though I don't know if that's proven true in practice. Or maybe they just do it to be different... nice smooth movement instead of the nasty inelegant electromechanical clunk.

I'd be curious to know the reason too.

A. Rosich · #7 09-14-2003, 01:29 AM

According to M.B., they use vacuum door locks as they operate smoothly and noiseless (as you have guessed).

Although, in my opinion, Mercedes-Benz uses them because they are just plainly more complicated and difficult to repair (if they fail). As a general rule, this is their motto for all operating systems and electronics.

By the way, the only models available in Europe with mechanical lifters today are: A-class, G-class (standard version), and the V-class (Viano).

The C/E/S-classes all come standard with power windows now.

william rogers · #8 09-14-2003, 02:46 AM

Cap'n I ordered a window regulator for my Euro 500SE as bottom 10 or so teeth were stripped was very suprised it was only 34 dollars. When I got it is was Euro wind up type as I forgot to tell Phil the car had power windows,the joke was the the metal was about twice as thick as the power regulator witch was well over a hundred dollars . I ended up welding metal in where the stripped teeth were and cutting new teeth with a thin cut off wheel on a die grinder works like new. I made a copper patern from the good teeth to work from.My guess is that they used vacum for locks as there are so many ele.item already on an MB.......
William Rogers.......

P.E.Haiges · #9 09-14-2003, 10:02 AM

You guys make me feel like the luckiest person in the world. I've had a '80 300SD since '90 and have driven it 130,000+ miles. I have spent ~$3000 in repairs which I have done most of myself. Most expensive repair was the transmission but that was my fault for putting the vacuum hoses back on incorrectly.

So then this guy comes along with a '79 300SD for $1200. It ran good and I thought it would be worth it for a parts car. Then, since it ran so well but was somewhat rusty, I decided to use it for a wintercar as I always put the '80 away for the winter. So that was 5 years ago and it still going after 54,000 miles I put on for a total of 214,000 miles.

How much have I apent on it: ~$250. It hasn't needed any repairs to engine or drive train. Only thing done to engine was valve adjustments and the second one after 25,000 miles, all the valve clearances were in spec and none needed adjustment. It needed a new exhaust system so instead of buying new, I had 2 pipes custom bent and welded on the old muffler. Cost, ~$30 instead of the ~$300 it would have cost by buying new parts. My cost per mile so far comes out to about 1/2 cent for repairs. and its still going strong and never left me down.

So an older MB can be the lowest cost car to drive. You just have to get the right one which is an all iron engine Diesel.

P E H

psfred · #10 09-14-2003, 11:55 AM

MB has used other locking systems in the past -- just ask any 600 Grand owner. If you think vac systems are a pain, try hydraulic!

MB has used vac locks for a VERY long time, just how long I dont' know, but early 60's anyway. They are usually less trouble than electric, and cannot stick and run the battery down. Just an engineering decision. I like them better than electric, that CLONK of the locks operating annoys me.

Peter

blackmercedes · #11 09-14-2003, 12:08 PM

I asked an MB engineer about those vacuum locks. He looked at me like I was nuts to dare to question the engineering prowess of the mighty Mercedes-Benz. His explanation was that the vacuum door locks operate even if the battery was disconnected or the electrical system was disabled. This was safer in the event that you had to be rescued from a wreck.

I also asked about the lack of variable intermittent settings on the wiper. This was before the rain sensor was introduced. He again raised his brow at me, and replied "the five second interval is the correct one."

I wish I had his name and phone number so that I could ask about all the new cars with electrical door locks.

Benzwood · #12 09-14-2003, 12:37 PM

Hmm... interesting point about operating without a battery, though if my battery is dead I'm not sure having to reach over to open a different door by hand is my primary inconvenience.

I'm not sure about the safer-in-a-wreck thing either. I guess if your car is on fire and your electrical system is smashed, your front door is crunched and won't open, you're pinned in your seat so you can't reach any door lock but the driver's side... and yet despite all this massive damage the windows are intact and all the doors locked. So you feebly reach over and are rewarded with the smooth rise of vacuum door locks so that... so that... a rescuer who was too wussy too break a window can open a door and read you your last rites or something? I dunno. Seems far-fetched.

But, I have to agree about the "clonk"... that's the word I was looking for.

He again raised his brow at me, and replied "the five second interval is the correct one."

LOL! You have to admire conviction. Design by some wishy-washy committee would result in a wishy-washy car.

DRBB1 · #13 09-14-2003, 02:25 PM

After owning several sixties and seventies sedans and presently owning an 89 560SL and 96 S320 I can say, from personal experience only, Quality has gone down under the three pointed star since about 1990. Yes, 1990 was about the time Mercedes became conserned with cost of production as well as quality, and it is necessary to have a black bottom line to stay in business. We have yet to have problems with either of the current Mercedes in our garage, but I am waiting. We bought the S class used with 77K on it a year ago. It is my wife's driver and a lthough as I said we have yet to have a problem, I can see the potential is there. Mercedes quality is just not what it used to be.
If the S turns into a money pit, restoring a 67 or so S or SE may be the answer. 108's from the late sixties seem to be the best drivers I have ever had.

A. Rosich · #14 09-14-2003, 07:22 PM

It is very intersting how some members can pinpoint an exact date of when quality started to go down the drain at Mercedes-Benz.

I say this because M.B. cars have long life cycles, which used to expand around ten years (+/-). Today, these cycles are shorter.

But the fact is: If you bought a Benz car in the 90's, it was for sure designed and thought out in the 80's.

In my opinion, it was in the very early 90's that M.B. decided to let costs run over engineering excellence. Hence, all the actual car lines are the ones who really are realiability nightmares and cheaply finished.

Now M.B. have realized its big mistake and its trying to solve the problem (just look at the W220 facelift).

blackmercedes · #15 09-14-2003, 07:41 PM

I think it's impossible to truly pin down a "date." Some things have done nothing but get better. My C230's ACC works better and blows colder than any W201 or W124 will ever muster, much less the tepid systems from W123 era cars.

Some electronics have improved dramatically. I have yet to find legions of late model car owners with cruise control systems failing over and over again. I had a hard time finding a W201/W124/W123 owner with working CC.

In terms of engine management and efficiency, the new cars are wonders. They get better mileage, make more power, and work for ages without any adjustment or other intervention. Some emission requirments have forced some components to become more fragile (ALL makers struggle with MAS/AMM's today) but for the most part, fuel and ignition systems have become very long lived and reliable.

Interior components have degraded in quality. The Tex in my car is cheap compared to my old 190E's. The dash and other materials in the W202 are very robust and I thought even better than the lighter plastic in the W210 we owned, but the trend was clear: less. Look at the glove-box door in the W203 vs. previous cars. Yick.

And so on... It's a matter of degrees...