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  #46  
Old 08-27-2003, 10:56 AM
Benzwood's Avatar
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Cap'n, as I recall you've been on this soapbox for as long as I've been here.

Please... sell your Benz for a few hundred bucks, use it as a downpayment on a new Toyota.

Go water skiing and mountain climbing. Enjoy life! Don't die a bitter old man with a busted Benz.

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1992 300E Sedan (Sold)
1999 E320 Wagon (Sold)
1995 E320 Sedan
1995 E320 Wagon
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  #47  
Old 08-27-2003, 11:05 AM
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Re: Two comments........

Quote:
Originally posted by placo1
1. If your after reliability, and driving pleasure means nothing to you then buy a Camry.

2. Mercedes, the price we pay for personality.
Ahhh.... refreshing to find someone with enough self-honesty not to need my 'BS psychoanalysis'!

Steve
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  #48  
Old 08-27-2003, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzwood
Cap'n, as I recall you've been on this soapbox for as long as I've been here.

Please... sell your Benz for a few hundred bucks, use it as a downpayment on a new Toyota.

Go water skiing and mountain climbing. Enjoy life! Don't die a bitter old man with a busted Benz.
Benz 300 posed the question "Is Mercedes too troublesome?". In my case that is true. When you have to replace the evaporator or transmission or fuel distributor on yours, you may sing a different tune too. Then again, you may never have to replace anything. I was relaying my experiences and nothing more.

Last edited by Cap'n Carageous; 08-27-2003 at 12:50 PM.
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  #49  
Old 08-27-2003, 11:47 AM
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Yeah, Cap'n I think your 300E needs to have an *accident* and then collect the insurance and start clean before this car utterly demoralizes you...* just kidding*

My 300E, as I've stated many times before, has been incredible. It's close to 300,000 Kms and it's 14 years old. Still looks like new and no rust. Original tranny and engine - still the original valves, seals, etc. Pretty remarkable. Especially given that those 14 years have seen 14 winters in Ontario, Canada where salt is everywhere on the roads in winter. It truly blows me away. I have not seen many other car makes, if any, last this long under these conditions. You just don't see too many older cars in Ontario that are winter driven - the rust kills 'em young. Many of my friends' cars that are only a few years old are already showing some rust in corners and wheel wells - pretty discouraging.

Sure my car requires regular preventative maintenance, but it returns it in spades with dependable performance. I love seeing people's faces when I tell them my car is a 1989 model with 300,000 Kms on it.

So is my Mercedes problematic? Not at all.
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2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


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  #50  
Old 08-27-2003, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus
Yeah, Cap'n I think your 300E needs to have an *accident* and then collect the insurance and start clean before this car utterly demoralizes you...* just kidding*
It has definately demoralized me. I will NEVER buy another Mercedes.

Unless.... it's a newer one still under warranty...or an SL or a C55 AMG or a W123 with records or.........
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  #51  
Old 08-27-2003, 12:33 PM
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It looks like we are all willing to accept different levels of tradeoffs to drive MBs.

Cap'n Carageous, your travails have far exceeded my threshold for pain, and I would have given up long ago. Reading the forums, there are some owners that have more than their share of bad luck. In my very short period of ownership, problems have been minor.

Since buying my used 1991 300CE with 112,250m in June 2002, now with 122,750m, this is what I've done besides fluid changes:

tumbler $90
SRS and horn contacts $50
Horn Hub $80
voltage reg $50
front rotors and pads $165
thermostat $7

I LOVE driving this car. I look forward to my driving everyday. When faced with a new car purchase decision, my choices were a new econobox (i.e. Honda) that would be initially expensive but would have low maintainance and high dependability or this car that looked awesome, drove awesome and cost far less but with potential repair and dependability problems. So far so good, knock on wood.

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  #52  
Old 08-27-2003, 02:58 PM
Benz300
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well honestly I didnt expect such a welcoming reply when I initially posted this out of frustration :-D
I guess I'm not the only one here who seems to think that there's a huge "price" to pay for the "personality" as was mentioned. But honestly, back in the 80's or even early 90's I would've understood this notion. but now with ample amount of luxury cars available, japanese in particular, I fail to comply with the statement that "personality" factor can only be found having a three point star on your hood. It can easily be found with four circles in your grill, taking the bavarian route, or to make life easy going the 'upscale toyota (lexus)' way.
I truly understand what Cap'n has to say about the reliability factor. I've got two 190's and a w124 but I dare not drive them farther than 50 miles from home. because I've been stuck with all three of them numerous times and had to tow them to the dealer. two of them are owned almost new with all histories available.
I would have to sadly conclude that the pre 90's benzes can more or less be categorized as a "mechanic's love" rather than a " personality booster" . Because when you have to stand on the side of the road with your suit on and trying to get under to hood to see what in the world made all that coolant drop on the road and why you see smoke out of your front hood. only to find out later that due to "design flaw" the neck of the radiator gave away... that situation just can't be categorized as the "price for personality" by anyone passing you by on the road or yourself as the moment
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  #53  
Old 08-27-2003, 03:31 PM
Benz300
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Wink

LOL, could be. and how about the 24/7 road side assistance. If i'm not mistaken they were the pioneers in that service. maybe for a reason
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  #54  
Old 08-27-2003, 03:58 PM
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glenmore's on my wavelength.

If you just want to get from Point A to Point B with a minimum of fuss, then get a Japanese econobox.

But if you want a "nice" car, I think a well-maintained used Mercedes compares very favorably to other cars at just about any reasonable price point you care to choose. If you get too cheap, you should probably steer away from the Benz, because it's probably cheap for a reason.

Despite their quirks, Mercedes "wear" better than most cars. The styling is more timeless, the materials used are higher quality, and they are (generally) better maintained by their owners.

So you can buy (I did) a 10-year-old Mercedes that's really nice... nicer (in my opinion) than a brand new Japanese sedan that's pushing $30K. That leaves a lot money left over for unexpected repairs.

Another interesting comparison might be a new loaded Camry vs a later model Starmark E Class Mercedes. Purchase price is probably comparable, and both would have repairs warranteed.

If you want that new car smell, then I dunno... a new Mercedes is quite a wallet-biter and I'm not sure current construction materials and quality are as good as some of the older models. Moot point for me, anyway, as I'm not planning on dropping $50K for a new car any time soon.
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Last edited by Benzwood; 08-27-2003 at 04:13 PM.
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  #55  
Old 08-27-2003, 04:25 PM
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I've also heard that Mercedes is single handedly responsible for the rise in popularity of the cellphone, as it is a necessity in an older Benz!!! :p



Note to readers: This is one of those posts that keeps pushing itself down. At least one post above it should actually be below it.
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  #56  
Old 08-27-2003, 07:29 PM
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We have a 16 year old Mazda in our family that is easily the most reliable car we've ever owned. It has required little other than routine maintenace, except:

Nothing before 133,000km's. Then after that:

New struts front and rear, and fronts are shot again
New alternator
New radiator
New battery (a few)
Dash illumination replaced

Pretty good for 16 years and about 170K-miles. The AC is on the way out, and that'll be an expensive repair. I'm debating keeping the car as insurance rates have gone up, but it's a durned handy thing to have.

The real kicker is the driveline. We're for sure on borrowed time on the electronic four speed auto box. Also, the engine will need some top-end attention soon. Neither of these things will be done by us. If the tranny lunches, the car is towed away. No way would I drop $2500 on a car worth half that.

Here's the problem. A 16 year old Benz still has value. It must have, otherwise why on earth would anyone do anything more than a minor repair to one? Fix a 1990 anything? Huh? Why do people expect their 14 year old MB to have new car like reliability? The very fact that the cars have strong engines is AMAZING to people that own old cars. Check out those "great" 1988, 1989, or 1990 Honda Accords. They're buckets compared to any similar vintage Mercedes. Our Mazda is a great car, but drives like crap, looks like crap, and is not worth anything to anyone but us. If that's what you want, go ahead.

Now, my family experience has been marginal on new MB products. The C230 has been good (until my tranny recently) but our E300 was terrible. I personally think MB could do better on many fronts, and 3-5 year relability is one of them. Yes, the bottom end of the engine will last until I'm too old to drive, but so what if I've replaced $25,000 worth of electronic items in the meantime?

MB has been chasing new customers, and their wish came true. Unfortunately, many of these customers are moving "up" from Accords and Camrys. They expect MB to do at least as well during the first 3-5 years, and they're not. These folks were weaned on Japanese cars built i the "age of automotive reliability" (post 1988-ish) and have grown used to things running smoothly. What they don't know is that the simpliest MB is more complex that the most complex Camry.

MB has reaped what the sowed.
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  #57  
Old 08-28-2003, 02:13 AM
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the initiator of this thread may cause his own problems. if ONE cannot spell, how can ONE hope to operate one of these cars.

i think the name is MERCEDES.
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  #58  
Old 08-28-2003, 06:37 AM
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As always, this is one of the most interesting forums I have seen. The typical postings show a higher degree of thought than, say a Honda forum.

Prior to making my decision to buy a vintage MB I researched several competing makes of vehicles. I had a few reasons for what I wanted. I have other vehicles that serve my daily transportation needs. New Camry every 2-3 years, a Honda del Sol at my disposal (not that I use it much), a 2001 VW Golf GTI VR6, and my '77 VW Type 2 (seven passenger bus) that has under 75K miles. For me, each serves a purpose and I knew I didn't NEED another mode of transportation. What I did need was a hobby. Additionally, I work with at-risk teens and needed a utility vehicle. Hence, I now own and love my '87 300TD. It has lived up to all of my expectations. When I need escape from thinking about the gross neglect problems seen through the at-risk teens I work with, I can count on my 300TD. It is already a point of pride. Past neglect, possibly some engineering flaws, have given me a vehicle that I can work on when I want to. I can break from the problems of the day and relax by hunting for items that might require some attention. You know, learning to remove the console in order to clean and apply some dielectric compound to the rocker switches. Exploring how to remove the tailgate interior panel w/o breaking the top edge in order to service the rear wiper. Personally speaking, I hope my list never ends. If it does, I misunderstood what so many wrote within the past postings of this forum.

Check some of the other vehicle forums and you may find a large quantity of lightweight chatter as opposed to the helpful and well thought-out postings here (excluding ones like this one ... though these also serve a purpose). Long live MB and the quirks that help make them so unique.
Steve
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  #59  
Old 08-28-2003, 10:55 AM
Benz300
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Albert,
smart thinking. you've contributed to this thread something that the rest of 1670 viewers could not. but then again your contribution of thoughts are as good as a spell check software available as a freebie.
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  #60  
Old 08-28-2003, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Here's the problem. A 16 year old Benz still has value. It must have, otherwise why on earth would anyone do anything more than a minor repair to one? Fix a 1990 anything? Huh? Why do people expect their 14 year old MB to have new car like reliability? The very fact that the cars have strong engines is AMAZING to people that own old cars. Check out those "great" 1988, 1989, or 1990 Honda Accords. They're buckets compared to any similar vintage Mercedes. Our Mazda is a great car, but drives like crap, looks like crap, and is not worth anything to anyone but us. If that's what you want, go ahead.
Exactly. My 14-yr old Benz still looks great, drives great, and is totally reliable. All it takes from me is diligent maintenance.

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2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon
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