Have a '97 C280 Sport. Driven it about 180,000 miles. Its never been to a dealer for any rutuine maintenace. Most MB owners buy these cars because they require so little care, at least thats why I bought mine. All I do is change oil. tires of course and battery. But in general MB require no real outlandesh maintenace. I think the worst thing you can do is have a dealer do your work.

Hello,
I think that continous ownership of Mercedes from a 1954 170DS(my father's second and only other car) to a 2000 ML320 *qualify* me to comment here.

1. 1953 170DS(W191): Used everyday from 1954 to 1981, about 780,000 miles. Only real failure was OM636 engine threw a rod in 1970 due to air leak in vacuum governor line, overreving engine.

2. 1976 200(W115): Current daily driver, apart from worn carb that has been rebuilt with new main body, runs like it can go on forever. True miles unknown, I guess it has covered at least 200,000.

3. 1989 260E(W124): Some minor a/c issues and an oil leak from front timing cover, all cured. Changed all 4 shoks in 2000 and needs the vacuum actuators replaced in the heater/ac unit, otherwise has given sterling service. About 160,000 miles on it right now.

4. 2000 ML320(W168): OK, here is the *black sheep* of the fleet.
Has needed wheel alignment twice, sunroof assembly, battery, 4 new tires, front brake pads, front center armrest/console cover, an intermittent vibration at idle and the latest *trick*, the BAS, ABS and ESP lights blinking at the driver randomly. Total mileage is 30,000 miles.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

I am currently looking for a W113 SL and if that falls thru, a original 250S W108 is a back up choice and a W126 300SE for daily driver use if my W115 expires.

Acquaintances who have W140, W210, W202 type cars always seem to be *fixing* something or the other on their cars. It seems to me that the 1990s generation of Mercedes have *planned obsolescence* so that owners buy/lease newer cars.

__________________
Nachi11744

My contribution to this thread:

View your car like you would a person - its not how perfect they are, but rather, how happy they make you.

Also, I read post after post about the cost of ownership. This in particular: The cost of individual repairs are not what counts. Cost of ownership ALWAYS comes down to cents-per-mile.

Mike

Three window regulators, loose wheel bearing, squeaky seats, air mass sensor failure, malfuntion valve, O2 sensor replacement, dead battery, and many other little things that make today's Mercedes synonym to unreliable and irresponsible. Talk about total ownership cost and "state of denial" that some of us are in. It's true that Mercedes used to make cars that surpass and excel even today's standard; however, today's Mercedes quality is falling into a black hole that we will never see an end to this turmoil, at least in a near future. I know many of you may have heard of this already, I still have to say it one more time. Compared to the Camry I used to own, my Mercedes is a piece of junk, it's a fast-food car like McDonald food. Nowaday, people buy Mercedes because it's a Mercedes, not because what used to make a Mercedes a Mercedes, quality, durability, and reliability. All these essential ingridients are long gone. Neverthless, people only care about the name, a non existant attribute made up of aggressive marketing campaign and prapaganda. After all, German engineer is no better than Detroit Innovation. Buyer beware.

Twenty-five years ago I set out to prove that MBs could be an efficient cost/mile car to own. In my area of the woods, the size of my business is proof of my capability to do just that! And I charge!

The great bulk of my MB business is on 10-20 year old cars. I'll guarantee that you won't find successful shops with any size working on 10-20 year old Asian products or domestic either.

These are some real statistics! Combined with our body shop, we have 30 people independently maintaining these cars.

__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

This might offer a contrast in ease of repair, I just found out that to replace a starter in a Lexus LS 400, you have to remove the injection system and the intake manifold! Yikes.

__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

Like I have indicated before, many vehicles are designed for ease of assembly, not repair. Yes, you can keep them going but at what cost/mile?

I will give you another example of basic maintenance that is not economical. The spark plugs in an Lexus RX300 are designed for 100,000 mile replacement intervals, but if you keep the vehicle this long and need to replace the plugs, the ones up against the firewall are inaccessible unless you loosen the engine mounts and tilt the V-6 engine forward!

Someone mentioned planned obsolescence of an MB. Look around you and see how many 10+ year old Toyota's, Nissan's, Lexus's, Infiniti's and other Asian products you even see on the road out there. Probably the main reason you see this is the cost of repairs on these vehicles exceeds the value of the vehicle after the 10 year/100,000 mile point.

Very True, you said it right!...with stuff like pontiac grand am's its more like 7-10 years before repairing for even passing emissions tests might exceed the value of the car...

i continue to be intrigued by this thread.

i once had a salesman in 1990. i would have furnished him a benz. he wanted a honda. accord, i think. he worked for me for two years. the car was remarkable. it never saw the shop. when this salesman left, i retrieved his car and drove it back to my offices[100 mile run].

the car was totally screwed up. no wonder it was so maintenance friendly. nothing had been done to it for 40,000 miles. the engine ran terribly. the alignment was all screwed up[reviewing the salesman's expense reports, i discovered that tires were being replaced every 10k miles].

after 3,000 dollars to bring the car back up to norms, another salesman decided he wanted it. he was more conscientious - at least it received routine oil changes, etc. but, whenever it needed any part, the parts were never in the usa. and the car was always laid up for at least a week. these parts included spark plugs and spark plug boots[extensions], ignition wiring harness.

at 68,000 miles, the auto tranny went south. honda offered no factory rebuilds. a new replacement tranny was quoted at $3,500. at the time, 1993, i recall that this was more expensive than a new replacement tranny from benz for my 1986 560sel. and from benz, i could get a factory rebuild for about $2,500.

the new honda tranny would have to come from japan. had to be paid for in advance from the dealer, delivery time to dealer 7-10 days.

the benz trannies were available within 24-48 hours. no prepay requirement.

eventually, for a 4-banger, 120hp honda tranny we had it rebuilt at aamco for about 2 g's. should have sold the car. because the rebuild didn't make 10,000 miles.

compare this to my 8-banger, 240hp 560sel tranny. rebuilt at approx 210,000 miles for $1,700. at 250,000 miles, working like new.

i want to close by mentioning some japanese design imperatives. by law, cars in japan must be replaced every 6 years. for all practical purposes, japanese cars are designed to this durability requirement. and if you have ever driven in japan, you would recognize that achieving 60,000 miles in 6 years would be quite a feat.

i had a friend with a lexus ls400. he accumulated 60,000 miles in the houston area in less than 4 years. he took his car in for its 60,000 maintenance. he had a heart attack when he picked it up. he didn't want to tell me the cost, but i was able to get him to yes or no it into a range. more than $12,000, less than $15,000.

i have never had any maintenance performed on any of my fleet of benzes that ever came close to this amount of money.

oh, and then there is my personal lexus story for the grand finale. in 2000, i purchased a new lx470. in its first 1100 miles, i had so many problems with it, almost all dealer-caused, that i offered it back to the dealer for the full price i paid for it. without argument, he wrote me a check and re-purchased the vehicle.

i have always felt sorry for the next owner. i told the dealer that he should just keep it in his fleet as a perpetual demo.

enough said.

For those of you who have ever traveled to Japan and spent time there long enough to know their "safety" certification system, you will know that each year your vehicle must undergo a safety system inspection. Things such as paint scratches, dents, dings and other visible damage are not allowed and must be corrected before receiving their annual certificate. To me it was rules to support the Japanese auto industry since after a few years it was impractical to cost justify these repairs.

Driving by an auto graveyard one day, I questioned the Japanese executive who I was with how old the cars in the junkyard were since they all appeared to be in relatively good condition. He indicated that most Japanese cars did not last more than 60,000 km before they were junked!

RE: Good obsevation regarding Jap cars. My experience and expectations are to drive my C280 at least 200,000 miles at which time I may trade for another new Mercedes. If its not obvious by now that these cars require little to no maintenace then you are'nt paying attention. Now at over 180,000 miles I have NEVER had any work done on my ride.

i love my 89 300E and am confident that i will drive
it for many, many miles.

But my 1984 Toyota LE Van with 213K miles is
still all original, never failed any emission test. I also
still see a lot of them on the road.

__________________
joel

Prayers bring forth enlightenment.

I prefer driving a Mercedes. I like them, I like servicing them (for the most part) and my Dad owed his life to being protected by one during a horrific accident.

I guess this all adds up to pay to play-

Haasman

__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

This thread is 7 pages long and I think I read enough of it to be amazed it took this long till someone pointed out safety as a consideration.

I don't usually think about it. I'm sure that is because I have driven a 3000+lb German car (Porsche, MB, or BMW) for the last 30 years.

I'm sure a year in a Honda would be an awareness shattering experience.

__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

Yes, I am also amazed that it took this long to bring up the subject of safety. I guess everyone was keeping a narrow eye on the maintenance/repair cost factor.

Now that this factor has been introduced, I would like to say that when I consider purchase of any vehicle, I consider safety first! It makes no sense to save several thousands on initial purchase if you will pay later in possible medical costs after an accident (if you are so fortunate as to survive). Even after medical costs and recuperation, people just do not think about any permanent injuries that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. I would much rather spend my money on a safe car even if it is not as trouble free as the most reliable vehicle I could purchase.

One last point, some cars have great crash ratings but they are designed to only pass the specific criteria of the test. These manufacuters do not take into consideration the vast array of crash conditions that occur in everyday life. Also, crash tests only take into account "passive" safety and do not even consider "active" safety features that keep you out of the accident to begin with.

What would you rather spend your dollars on, repair costs to your vehicle or medical costs for yourself with the possibility of lifelong injuries. When you look at it this way, a few more problems or a few more dollars just does not make economic sense to me.