what type of issues/problems with the e300 made u type such a statmeent ?

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

"Quality and reliablilty are two different things, not to be confused. Just because a car doesn't need many parts, that doesn't mean that its made well. "

Hatterasguy, quality and reliability need not be mutually exclusive. Shouldn't someone expect reliability in a high quality and high priced product? Why. other than status, would someone wear a Rolex when a Fossil does the same job? The boat analogy is different since you may notice performance differences in favor of the more expensive boat. I loved my Triumph TR6 back in the day, but it was just for fun. I knew its spotty reputation going into the deal. Shouldn't someone who pays $100K for a car demand reliability? After all, what good is a high quality car that spends 20% of its time in a shop? When I'm really honest with myself I realize that I, like many Benz owners, am status conscious. I like the status the mystique and traditional styling of this car and the looks that it gets - looks that my Lincoln does not get. In exchange, I tolerate the fact that it is somewhat sensitive and high maintenance- somewhat like a trophy wife. In Germany, these are taxicabs and police cars, but here in the States, we place these babies on pedestals. I'm not judging - I do the same thing!

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1991 560SEL (254K miles)
1980 Lincoln Mark VI - Givenchy
1979 Lincoln Mark V Collector's Series
1979 Lincoln Town Car Collector's Series
1979 Ford "Effie" Pickup (in gradual transformation to a show/street truck)
1969 Lincoln Mark III (waiting for "Overhaulin" to call)
1989 Lincoln Towncar
2001 Lexus GS300 (spousal unit's daily driver)

women recognize a Rolex.

Anyway, if I were to spend the $$ necessary to purchase a brand new car today I have to admit it would not have the three pointed star but the H symbol representing the Honda brand. I'm actually kinda sitting here waiting for their diesel. Anyway, the reason being is that the Honda beats the MB hands down in regards to the maintenance cost but I will say that some of the same stuff that goes wrong with a 200k+ miles MB is going wrong with our 200k+ Honda CRV. Namely, window regulators and door check straps. These parts are cheaper for the Honda than the MB too.

Don't get me wrong - I will drive a 123 as long as I can do the maintenance myself. Honda did their homework with the design/engineering of their vehicles.

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Jim

Because it makes a statement. A Rolex makes a statement about ones success, it says I can afford a $10k watch. A Fossil while rather nice, can be had for $50. On a side not if you just like watch's they are pretty neat, Rolex does build them to a higher standard as one expects.

Most people buy Mercedes to make a statement, look at me my bank account is quite healthy. But that is not exclusive to MB, Lexus, Jag and the ultimate Rolls Royce fall into that category.

Then you have the enthusiasts, those sick people like most of us that just like these cars for various reasons. Be it the way they drive, engineering, everyone’s reasons are different.

But in owning any high end good one must remember, the entry fee is higher, and the cost of staying in that league are also higher. Lets take Toyota, we just got my mom an 07 Rav4. Its the latest and greatest from Toyota all new, you get the idea. Well it is most certainly not much different then my 13 year old Camry. All the controls are similar, the engine puts out a bit more power but is essentially the same ect. In 13 years they introduced no new technology, oh no they added rear disc brakes and traction control, wow advanced stuff. Now since all this stuff on this SUV is tried and true been sorted out ages ago one would expect it to not cause issues. So far this has proven correct.

Now lets compare say a 1993 300E, to a 2007 E350. Anything similar? Well they are 4 door sedans with 6 cylinder engines, that’s about it! MB introduced a ton of new and more advanced technology. Stuff that has not been proven, but its new and pretty cool. So of course its going to cause issues, its new the bugs are still getting worked out.

That’s not even getting into the difference in materials, but thats to be expected at twice the price.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

And I guess that pretty well sums it up doesn't it?. It's the styling, technology and mystique that attracts many Benz enthusiasts, despite the fact that Benz has been living largely on its mystique, alone, for over a decade. There are some who would not touch a post-126 Benz even though (or perhaps because) the 126 has few bells or whistles when compared to modern Benzes, yet some like to "be the first on the block" to have the latest bells and whistles even though those B's and W's often land the car in the shop. I'll also admit that I get a feeling of pride when I walk into the Benz dealership to pay for the latest repair. You receive a knowing nod from the other club members in the waiting area as they sip their designer coffee while watching the plasma TV. We like to be able to display our accomplishments (impress the women), while showing that we can also handle the high cost of continued membership in this club. The fact that we willingly keep a "justincase" car evens adds to that aura. I must admit, while I complain about a $2K invoice, my 126 has never stranded me and has cost me relatively little over the past 5 years. It's quite dependable as a daily driver if you stay ahead of the preventive maintenance curve. I had a Benz salesman once tell me that I should do whatever I can to keep my 126- this from a guy who makes his living selling new ones! Go figure!

I am curious about whether there are discussion boards for Bentley's or Maserati's in which so many owners have as much ongoing maintenance drama as what I read on this board. I will do some research on the Bentley and Maserati boards and report back.

Merry XMAS to all!

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1991 560SEL (254K miles)
1980 Lincoln Mark VI - Givenchy
1979 Lincoln Mark V Collector's Series
1979 Lincoln Town Car Collector's Series
1979 Ford "Effie" Pickup (in gradual transformation to a show/street truck)
1969 Lincoln Mark III (waiting for "Overhaulin" to call)
1989 Lincoln Towncar
2001 Lexus GS300 (spousal unit's daily driver)

I am a long term MB driver 30 years and 5 cars. I always thought I got my money's worth until recently. My 2000 ML 320, bought new 47k, has really let me down in the last three weeks. I was driving straight and level at 40MPH and BAM! the car locked up one or more wheels without my foot on the brake! I dove for the shoulder and made it without being rear-ended. I have been ignoring a BAS/ESP light that rarely shows (5% of driving time) for months hoping to wait out a service visit. After the first incident, my local mechanic found nothing and reset the ESP. BAM again. First dealer service was new brake switch and BAM again. Second visit was a replacement of the YAW Sensor. The sensor and switch cost over $1000. The yaw sensor apparently shorted out and sent the BAS a signal that the car was out of control and power was withdrawn and brakes applied to certain wheels to bring the truck back under control. I'm just thankful that I survived three abrupt panic stops without my foot on the brake caused by the failure of a component in the electronic stability system. This is a really dangerous engineering fault. Imagine interstate driving at speed and sudden almost lock up (the BAS functioned with the pulsation) of some wheels.

They can be costly. For the first two years my SDL was bleeding me for $300-$400 in parts a month. That was fun!

Not that I read the Ferrari forum all the time, but I notice with those cars a few grand here and there is just expected. Also the high entry fee kind of keeps the people who really shouldn't be driving them out. A $5k service on a $100k car isn't a big deal. But you get a second hand MB for $5k-$10k and a $2k repiar is a big chunk of the purchase price.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Wow!......unacceptable.......new cars are getting a little scary. When are the going to realize there is a "tipping point" where cars will become too complicated and dangerous.

I wish Honda would hurry up and bring their diesel to the US.

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Jim

This is really startling. I was under the impression that none of this new fancy crap (on all cars, not just MB) were DESIGNED and tested under "rule 0", in that no failure can cause loss of the normal operation of the car, even if that "normal operation" was coasting to a stop while having the brakes working, even with loss of power assist. If you look at the electronics in an MB (or any car of the 80's or up to the mid 90's) you can see that this is true, everything electronic has a "limp home" or "degraded performance" mode. IMHO, as soon as the mfr's strated violating rule 0, that's when the troubles began...I can hardly wait to see what things will be like with this new steering by wire crap 10 years from now. Or this automatic parking stuff gone mad or degraded from age and lack of maintenance.

When I was still working in engineering in the 90's, our shop was fairly close to UL headquarters in Northbrook. They were at the time mulling over the testing of software and systems for UL approval, and our UL guy was pretty respected over there. We came to the conclusion that it would be impossible to build something inherently safe unless it was designed from a blank piece of paper to have every failure mode run to a safe mode.

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86 560SL
With homebrew first gear start!
85 380SL
Daily Driver Project

http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm

I have a '73 220D with four speed stick. I bought the car, a really nice car, with a dead engine for $500. I bought and installed a completely rebuilt 240 engine from Metric Motors for about 5K (2 year un-limited mileage warrantee).

From the time I first cranked that engine over 'til now I have had ZERO trouble with the car. Geez, the thing is SO simple, there really is nothing to go wrong, so long as basic maintenance points are covered.

Well, OK - the central locking system does not work properly, but that should be simple enough to fix when I open up the doors this coming Spring (fix busted vac lines). And I will be replacing either axle boots or the entire axles before long, as the old boots are cracking.

My total expense thus far is about 7K. Now I just drive and change the oil in the thing, and I love it.

For myself, I would never own a car that has a computer in it, or power windows, etc. And I would never trust a shop to do the work for me. I am DIY to the max, and the old MB fits right in with the fleet of old air-cooled VWs, which, BTW, never give me trouble either.

Newer cars suck. You HAVE to rely on the dealer because they are so complex. Not for me.

Buy old, and do the work yourself. Works for me, and has never left me stranded.

Ciao!

I hope I'm not jinxing my ML, but it's been quite reliable after 130K mi.

Not if the right diagnostic tools are available. I can diagnose any problem on a VW or Audi with a $200 software package and a laptop; unfortunately such a package is not available for Mercedes. Touaregs and Phaetons are just as complex as most Mercedes.

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

Mercedes owners should be wealthy or mechanics . I bought my E 320 wagon used with 87K on a 94 . My wealthy neighbor liked mine and got a brand new E320 05-06 500 miles on it , some transmission problem , under warranty installed a new trans. 100 miles later some shift issues over night in the shop.

One fellow said figure $2000 a year on average if you go to a dealer , seems high . I figure once they make 10 k most of the new problems are done , at 100 - 130k is the next run of water pumps - AC fixes - seat motor switches - head gaskets - auto. transmission plates /discs. After that 170K on they just keep going or people don't care as much.

I like the ride, seats , Steel quality , Paint , safety . Yes I am a mech.

You hit the nail on the head.

On my 1993 300E (3.2), at somewhere between 127,000 and 135,000 miles, I had to replace the head gasket, water pump, air pump (pulley rebuild kit), throttle actuator, flex discs, and some other parts that I can't remember.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Wouldn't they think of running enough simulatinos and road tests before putting it on the market and letting the consumer road test it for them to be best? I mean, that iiisssss what the Japanese do don't they?

I think you keep seeing high mileage MBs on the road b/c , like you said, the steel quaility, paint, etc... keeps it together. They stay in pretty good "visual' condition... so you keep putting money into it....as I did as well... but look how many fixes you listed.... that shouldn't be the case...

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1995 E320 smoke silver / parchment