Never pull on superman's kape, spit into the wind or take your MB to a MB dealer. Do what's necessary your self. MB's need so little maintenace that they are really quite trouble free.

Yes, there is no doubt GM would produce a higher quality product if the UAW didn't have such restrictive work rules. A colleague recently relayed to me his experience with heat treating of components at a US GM plant. In this particular case UAW work rules dictated that the plant ran two heat treat cycles; any more would be too much trouble to change over (they only get paid twice as much as most US workers you know). GM's Canadian plant had no trouble doing it right, Tier 1 suppliers could run it right, but UAW couldn't be bothered to change cycles.

Having said that, GM has not designed any product that is worth looking at in my lifetime, in the US market anyway. And they agreed to all the UAW contracts, "jobs bank" and all. At least Ford has a guy at the helm with his name on the side of the building; all GM's managers seem to be out to get rich regardless of what happens to the organization. Here is the latest in a really insightful commentary into GM's situation.

And now back on topic:
Boy I wish they still made them like that! Mostly they do, except for the "simple" and "cheap to maintain" part. My main two gripes: (1) I have software that can diagnose anything on any VW/Audi product; I can change the ride hieght on a Touareg for cryin out loud! But I can't buy software for M-B at any price! (2) No stick shift!

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

I am starting to really like my 300SD. Sure it is a pos and I am not really fixing anything, but it starts and runs really good! I only have a few cheap mostly maintaince parts on it like filters, hoses, and a tie rod end. The most expensive thing so far was a $65 battery.

It is turing into a very cheap $500 winter beater, so I am happy.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Boy I wish they still made them like that! Mostly they do, except for the "simple" and "cheap to maintain" part. My main two gripes: (1) I have software that can diagnose anything on any VW/Audi product; I can change the ride hieght on a Touareg for cryin out loud! But I can't buy software for M-B at any price! (2) No stick shift![/QUOTE]

If by writing "stick shift" meen manual transmission I can tell you that my chassis 124 230CE has manual transmission. And yes, in denmark the spareparts are cheap!

In Europe you have a lot more choices of engines and transmissions than we get in the US. Not just Mercedes, all brands.

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

when people buy used vehicles, they better be prepared for troubles. when i bought my 190e 16V, I had no idea of the service history of it. I bought it 3 years ago now, and within 6months of purchase I had to redo the whole rear suspension and now just did the front suspension. I bought it for a cheap price of 4k canadian so I really cant complain. When I looked at other cars in that price range, the 16V won easily. The looks and performance were better than that of the cavaliers and civics. My point here is that if the car is maintained well, it will last for a long time, NO MATTER the make of the vehicle. You would be surprised at how many people think you dont have to change the oil or tranny fluid. People's neglect is what kills vehicles.

Just to chime in...


My 94 has shown to be in incredible shape and i attribute that to its previous 2 owners. I think vehicle history has to take an incredibly important role in how the long term reliability is. My car shows just over 100k and i have only had to put new motor mounts on when i had the car inspected for sale to me. Previous owners were professionals, and had the vehicle routinely serviced (as paperwork shows) throughout its history. It was never abused, and always garaged. My paperwork shows that there were a few niggling items that were replaced per common MB recalls (electrical harness) being the most expensive. But wear and tear items with age, in any car with 100k miles will always creep up. Buying a MB is a huge leap for some, as i owned Jap cars for years, and finally went to a 300ce in 1995, and sold it prematurely, but came back to Germany in the form of a 95 M3 which was quite flawless and a blast to drive.

I was hooked when i drove again the w124, this time in 4 doors. My 94 drives like new, solid, no rattles, inspires a feeling of safety, and is relatively straitforward to DIY repairs. I just did the valve gaskets as they were original and weaping, i upgraded the waterpump preventatively (most cars with 100k need it buy mine was actually still working fine), and i did the EGR hot inlet pipe cleaning (which once the technique is known, is not difficult). I am planning to replace my rotors and brakes next, and shocks...both DIY projects that are fun and lets you really take control and knowledge of your $$$.

For any car to last long, you must drive it with care, which means, no racing, frequent oil changes (all areas), and the ability to learn how to diagnose symptoms that could lead to major problems (noises, leaks, brittle parts, etc).

I realize most MB owners aren't DIY guys...but once you get past the dealership or independent for alot of things that just take some tools, knowledge base, and common sense...i don't see my particular MB as any less reliable than other cars touted as 5 star. My fiancees Acura has had far more issues, and rattles than my e320..and she's spent more in the shop.

But cars are like women..everyone is different.

It is funny, same problem, same time frame. I have owned a Mercedes since I Was 15 (a '73 450 SLC that I restored). and I have had a few down the years. I currently have a '93 500 SEL and it is infinitly more troublesome that my '88 300 SEL. So far I have about $15,000 in repairs (doing some of the work myself) and there does not seem to be an end in sight. 1990 seems to be the turning point.

My dad has 2004 S430, and it has been nothing but trouble. It has been as troublesome as his '74 Cordoba. I think that will be his last Mercedes.

The dealer is really crappy too. His town used to have a fantastic dealer. That dealer really earned my dad's business. I know the current dealer. He was a dishonest car dealer when I was living there. He had a showroom of "classic" cars that were mostly fakes. He would sell cars as real, completely original (such as a Shelby GT 350) that were pieced together from multiple vehicles. I could bore you with the stories of getting warranty repairs, but I won't bother. I was picking up some parts for my wife's Toyota (230,000 mi, 15 years old in Cleveland) and running like a racehouse. He went down to the showroom and looked at a new Avalon. I wouldn't be suprised if that is his next car.

GM used to make great cars. I wonder if Mercedes has gotten to arrogant to understand that they could fall too.

A new mercedes or a old mercedes (pre 85) new ones have to give a lot up in order to stay competative,,, older ones unless you have owned them since they were new and maintained them, Well its luck of the draw,,,,Personally speaking , I drive mercedes benz's , simply because there is no other car out there that I would rather drive I have owned 85 300sd 85 300 td 78 450 sel and my most recent shining joy is a 85 500 sel 4 seater and yes I certainly do love the 126 frame and bodies,,,, keep your honda's toy otas and other great mileage cars
Mine are all 20 + years old and none of them are disposable, and just by the way
remember back 20 some years ago and remember the type of product the "other " guys made,,,,

Not in my lifetime! (I was born in 1966.)

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

With a few exceptions, you are right. I was also born in 1966.

But in the 50's.

A friend of mine (whose family has owned a lot of Mercedes: actually I was helping him fix the climate control on his dads 69 280 SEL) had a '56 Olds Delta 88. His dad bought the car new in '56. With careful care, it was continuously driven until the early '90's before he sold it. He really doesn't know how many miles were on the car since it was passed from family member to family member. At least 200,000. Keeping a car running that long in this part of the country is a major feat. If the car is not excellent, it is really impossible. Before he sold it, I did some research on the car. There were repeated comments on the superior quality of these vehicles.

Today, people tend to forget that GM was the Toyota + Microsoft of the '20s. They perfected the assembly line approach and the sequential marketing of cars to a popuation. That was the major technological breakthrough of the first two decades of the 20th Century. As you can tell, I used to work in the auto industry. I have worked in the US, Europe, and Asia. Unfortuately, I am concerned about the Diamler arm of DiamlerChrysler. They are burning their brand equity with the rash of troublesome cars they have put out over the last ten to fifteen years. I still talk to mechanics and people in the industry. They have confirmed the relative poor quality of Mercedes products over that timeframe. There does seem to be some acknowlegdement of the problems within Diamler's corporate headquarters. Hopefully they will not let pride and arrogance (like GM's) take over and lose sight that if their products are not excellent, they will lose business and market share. Considering how many technical advances that corporation has had (including inventing the automobile), it would be sad to lose them.

If anyone thinks MB doesn't build good cars anymore then head over to your local MB dealer and feel, touch, test drive a W221 or W211. They are built at least as well as my W126 was.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I have to agree with you on this point. We had an SC430 that we traded on an SL55. We also had an LS430 that we traded on an E55. The SC was a nightmare and the LS had its faults. Comparing the two brands, while the Lexus may be more reliable the Mercedes build quality is head and shoulders over the Lexus. The quality of materials is also much better in the MB.

I have had the SL for a year and am happy to report that I have not had a single issue with it.

I have owned many Hondas and currently drive a C43, which I bought new. The only real complaint I have about the C43 is that the quality is not even close to what I got used to from Honda. Once you strip away the air of arrogance, Mercedes is just not on the same level in terms of basic engineering. One of my Hondas is a 15 year old NSX that is still more reliable than the much newer C43.
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My honda is rock solid reliable even when you consider how heavily modified it is.

Have owned it 7 years and it has given me trouble only once when the screw retaining the Distributor rotor came off and tried to mill down the inside of the distributer cap. Thing is It still ran....poorly but it ran.


Its not terrible comfortible, but it handles incredibly well and is fast as all heck...and the best part is I only have $6,000 invested in it total. And it has years of trouble free life left in it.

If my two Benzes or any future Benz I may own can match or beat that reliability I would be very happy with it.

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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche