I said KOH equivalent that is how the TBN result is calculated. I did not say there is KOH (potasium hydroxide) in the oil. Potasium level should be very low in the oil that is how the presense of antifreeze in oil is detected. Also I hope Redline is wrong about CaCO3 otherwise your oil will fizz like soda-pop and who is Redline anyway? I will be sure to stay away from their products.

TBN is alkalinity, not KOH or CaCO3 -- these are the standards used to calculate the alkalinity, not the materials in the oil -- don't know what those are, but NOT calcium carbonate, it wouldn't dissolve!

When the TBN gets too low, acidic corrosion will start to occur. Short driving distance use without full engine warmup will greatly increase this problem due to water collection in the sump.

Synthetics are better oils, any way you want to measure it, but if you change them at 3000 miles, you are wasting money -- dino oils on that change interval are just as good. Synthetics shine under severe usage and long change intervals.

For diesel use (my own main use), soot levels are more important than anything else -- excess soot causes excess wear, so the oil has to go when the soot level gets up the the max, reguardless of the rest of the analysis results. For gasoline use, new engines run CLEAN -- on some cars, you won't see any visible color change in the oil after 6000 miles. Hard to believe, but true. Engines also last forever now -- my Nasty Nissan (90 Sentra SE with 235,000 miles) uses no oil between changes at 3000 miles (Speedy Oiler) -- leaks a bit, but doesn't burn any). Whoda thought?

RedLine is a distributor of high prices and high quality oils and additives, very reputable, one the order of Amsoil. Probably get their synthetic base from Mobil.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

I know nothing of chemistry/physics/tribology of motor oil.

What I think I know is that comparing your oil anayisis results ( samples ) over a period of time can tell you things like; increase in wear metals, coolant leaks, quality of oil.

What I had written were excerpts from articles about oil analysis which I had read a few years back. The question and answer post from redline was done this past friday.

TBN results seem like a really useful bit of info. I would be interested to now how these base results form KOH or who knows what else are used in the comparison to the oil samples.

Not another oil discussion but just a thought:

- We should feel very safe changing oil at 3000 mile (dino oil) with 4-5 quart sump (any other car)
- In my car, it holds 8.5 quarts
- a little calculation say
3000x8.5/4 = 6375 or
3000x8.5/5 = 5100 miles
- so it should be safe with oil change interval of 5000-6000 miles even if I only use dino oil?
- I drive about 20000 miles a year and am changing oil every 5000 miles anyway so about 4 oil change per year. My mechanic charges $70 for synthetic and $30 for dyno. Now that's about $160 saving per year - I know it's not going to break me, I am just trying to justify spending it. My questions are:

1. Does using synthetic actually overkill if I change oil at 5000 mile anyway?
2. Is it really safe for an 98 E-320 engine (FSS) using dino oil (but only use it for 5000 miles)?

Thanks in advance,
JeffreyP

did you know on your car with a device called a TOPSIDER you can pull the old oil out of the dipstick tube yourself, change the filter and refill? Saves money from having a tech do it.

one thing to think about is not simply the oils ability to maintain longevity but also the ability of the oil to perform when fresh in comparison to other oils.

search the web ( www.mobil1.com or REDLINE OILS site ) and develop an opinion on how well the oils flow, react to heat, to being compressed, attach to metal.

Yes, I think it's overkill but we all do it. What people should understand is that it's more important to top off the oil with new (and change the filter if possible) to maintain proper extended interval changes. I think 5K is a good time to replace it for most drivers using synthetics. For your 98 with dyno, don't do it - switch to synthetic. Remember the problems MB had with earlier MLs using dyno with FSS? That's solid data that extended changes with dyno is not a safe thing to do.

I follow the FSS and have performed oil analyses on some of my used oils. There is absolutely no problem at all. I wish MB did recommend filter changes in between FSS changes though.

the fss system was a failure. for those that worked on their own cars it was ok but to joe public it was terrible because the rest of the car was neglected.
thats why mb got rid of it for 2005.
course to repair shops it was a good thing.

george

MB got rid of it because they were losing money with it! They never raised the price of the cars compared to the drop in the dollar to the Euro so they had to do something. How could the car be neglected if MB dealers were doing the Service A and B for the first 50,000 miles? They have huge checklists to do and check everything between the two services. OF course after my warranty is up I will do the oil and filter myself as suggested by the FSS system. Actually FSS is still there in 2005 and has changed slightly, and they no longer pay for it. I think that is just stupid they do not include the Maintainance anymore though since BMW does it and included brakes in theres! MB may lose some customers to BMW if they were sticklers for not paying $150 for Service A and $300+ for Service B!

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

jamie, i have not seen in my shop a well maintained mb just out of warrenty
yet. never. mb quit paying for maint except for oil only since the beggining
of 04. i'm sorry you believe this. and i would not put this on mb only.
for ya'll that still have mb's under warrenty i would suggest getting
things in writting and to double check your filters and such.
also remember that the fss system doesn't tell you to check and replace stuff
every four years regardless of miles. nor does it tell you to check stuff more
often if you are in the city or are in a dusty area.
i see it and i live it and my customers pay for it.
the new system is just a mileage reminder.

george

Well no I know it does not tell you what to check, but the owners manual does. And I tell you my dealer better be doing full Services because they and I both signed documents stating it was covered. Now with the 2005's they make you of course pay for the Services. I did talk to a tech that had to come to the house for an issue and he said that since the FSS and the 10K oil changes came out they have been seeing more sludge problems in the engines. Which I would think you would see with Dyno oil and maybe he was refering to that instead of Synth but who knows. When I hit 50K and the warranty is over I am doing them every 5-7K miles myself. Should not have sludged up in the first 50,000 miles I would think but who knows. MB did not even give me a damn dipstick whick I think is crap, since it forces you to go to the dealer. I am going to request one from my dealer, hopefully they will give me one if they ever want me to buy another MB from them again. Oh well I guess in the long run we will see.

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

Larry Bible says it best:

Change it hot and change it often.

The mid-late 90s Toyota Camrys were known to sludge up in 20,000 miles. EGR will do that to oil. Toyota paid a hefty price in recalls for this issue. If you are the customer Mercedes has started designing their new lineup for (lease customer who trades every 3 years), then don't worry about it. If you want to own your car for years like Mr Daimler and Mr Benz intended, then I would change it every 5k from day one.

I did not lease mine so yeah I am in the class of people Mr Daimler and Mr Benz originally intended to sell cars to.

Lets hope no sludge. I have not heard of many engines using Synth Oil having sludge.

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

If I wanted to I could run almost 10k miles on oil changes in my 18 year old diesel. At least according to the lab I do 50/50 city highway driving, and use Mobil 1. I don't see a problem with a modern gas engine going 10k-15k, with Mobil 1 of course. If you don't beleive me do what the FSS says and send a sample off to be tested, if it comes back good follow FSS.

Btw Toyota's problem was a design flaw with the crankcase vent. Even cars that had 3k mile changes would sludge up there engines, I think their was a recall.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

My guess is that this subject has been discussed so much that many are sick of it.

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As I recall MB doesn't like 10W30 M1. Since M1 0W40 has been factory fill for at least four years now, at least for the US market, I see no reason not to use it year round, which I do. My C320 is still in warranty but I do a change at the FSS halfway point which ends up being 5-6000 miles. But, M1 15/50 can be bought cheaper (at WalMart, biggest Mobil 1 retailer on the planet) and it's on the MB approved list.

Your plan is fine except for the viscosity.