I'm not a big fan of lawyers, but in their "defense", our system is actually designed to create shifty appearing lawyers. Getting the client off is the goal of a defense attorney. In most of the world, the goal of the prosecution and of the defense is to discover the truth.

__________________
86 560SL
With homebrew first gear start!
85 380SL
Daily Driver Project

http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm

I happen to know that not all lawyers are idiot's or @$$holes, although most are mechanically challenged (gotta stay politically correct here)I get a lot of calls starting off with the mechanic says I need this what do you think. I have two lawyers in the family! I think it comes down to society allows people to put blame everywhere but where it belongs, on the fool that screws up. I can relate to that shops feelings having been the buisness for a number of years. Probably why I choose to work for other people instead of having my own place. I hope they stay with it.

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Keith Schuster
99 Harley Davidson Ultra Classic
97 Dodge Ram
83 300D
auto\hydraulic mechanic 20 yrs

I'm shocked that I didn't get blasted by a lawyer. There's one on here that I know of for sure.

Now I'll get blasted by a lawyer for sure. Johnny Carson once said that there was an honest lawyer convention scheduled. It was to be at a phone booth on a certain corner.

Larry

All you techs- you should also be liable if you don't waqrn little old ladies that the lack of cup holders in the older mercedes could cause burns if they drive with hot coffee. But then - did you properly define the word hot, and did you properly advise regarding the proper use of the cup holders, and warn of improper after-market cup holders, and ... what about your liability for not warning them of the CONSEQUENCES of driving with hot coffee and not properly watching the road. Should you install a hot coffee buzzer? That might distract the driver and casue an accident. Here you may have failed to properly test nd evaluate the safety of a buzzer.

I really hope that we are wrong that society has become so litigious and irresponsible.

Anyway, I am responsible for my problems and thanks for your great advice.

Rick's dad.

Larry,

The reason why you did not get blasted by a lawyer yet is because it is still light in Texas *lawyers are still sleeping*.

Wait until midnight and they'll wake from their crpyts.

:p

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'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'84 300 SD (sold it)

Larry D, with all due respect, if you are stating that you know a customer won't like something you prepared when they order it well done, aren't you inviting problems by failing to tell the customer that lack of taste is normal for over-cooked food? You know more than the customers, after all....

This type of forewarning is the entire point that Steve's associate was trying to make, and is the reason for contracts -- to keep expectations in line with the reality of the situation.

...tracy

yeah, the horror of it all.
A simple sentence advising customers of their responsibility to inquire further about
suggested service might disarm a suit as well
as a well placed sign.
Thank God you aren't Doctors of Medicine.
Read some medical malpractice suits and
you'll feel 'safer' about your mechanical
profession! M.D.s can be sued even after they are retired and/or dead! Really!
Anyway, legal extortion is nothing new in any
industry. In fact it is an industry unto itself. Sad but, its there.


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1979 300D
133K miles
1989 300SE
1995 C280

Tracy,
I agree. As a matter of fact, in many ways the two problems are alike, aren't they? I used to joke that "next time we ought to open a used car lot instead of another restaurant" It has become painfully obvious that maybe the can looks a little different, but it is still filled with worms.

On another note, my comments about lawyers are mostly tongue-in-cheek, as are most other comments made on this topic I am sure. Had the subject been about the I.R.S., I am confident that there would have been some ribbing there too. Heck, I'll make fun of myself if I have to, just to get a chuckle out of someone...humor helps quite a bit, especially when dealing with customers...wether they order 'well done' or ask for Firestone 500's on a Pinto.
(I suppose that dated me just a hair)
-Larry

[This message has been edited by Larry Delor (edited 08-07-2000).]

Well, lawyers... we're not going to get along without lawyers.
I think the operative phrase is "it wasn't worth fighting." If that's the case, and somebody made that decision, then - don't *****.
Harvey

O.K. This isn't exactly the way I wanted this thread to go. I really didn't want to start a lawyer bashing session here. Actually I didn't even notice the lawyer issue when I first read the post. I was so overcome by the concept that a way of doing business was dying that I overlooked the topic.

I really wanted those who fear their trip to the Auto Shop to have insight as to what makes this industry tic. To run a successful repair shop, more skills are necessary than just being able to fix cars. My whole philosopy of life and interpersonal relationships is threatened by this question; how much disclaiming must I do?

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Steve Brotherton
Owner 24 bay BSC
Bosch Master, ASE master L1
26 years MB technician

Yes, it is sad that the old business on a handshake days are gone. Luckily, there are still a few people/businesses where I can still do that, but I live in a rural area where everybody knows almos everybody else.

It should be apparent why this thread moved toward lawyers. It's because it's the lawyers that are moving us away from "doing business on a handshake".

Thanks Steve, for starting this thread, I hope it goes where you want, and that I didn't pour too much gasoline of the fire.

Thanks and have a great day,
Larry

Ditto Larry's comments. We do need lawyers - despite having more of them per capita than any country in the world and despite much of their work product apparently being the generation of laws creating a greater need for lawyers. (5 years ago, the State of California retained lawyers to sue other lawyers representing the state of California to resolve the issue of whether or not they owed themselves fees for granting themselves permission to use low level radioactive materials in biochemical and cancer research at state universities!)
I have met several ethical and intelligent attorneys, and had someone like them in mind when I suggested the idea of a disclaimer - maybe the addition or modification of several "words" rather than "paragraphs" is possible.
My only point is that if we allow our business world to be formed or modified by lawyers, then they MUST be part of the solution to problems in that world. A good attorney will help solve the problem, a bad one can make it worse. Any law or court judgement they make (or fail to make!!!), is based on legal precedent and facts, and affects the customer and their perception of and behavior towards our businesses. The observation that the laws may or may not be based on industry facts or every day logic or even "common sense" (there's an oxymoron for you!) is immaterial. Aside from that, I have no answers, just more questions!

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JCE
87 300E, 65k miles
Smoke Silver

We have become a society of shedding responsibility to the nearest available target. The lawyers are just simply making hay while the sun shines. If your insurance had put up a fight she probably would have gone after Volvo for building a defective engine or something. Its stories like this that make me feel a little uncomfortable and judging by the response to this thread I am not alone.
We all wonder why its so hard to find a good mechanic or why there are so many shops out there robbing people blind, well if you've been through what Steve went through a few times you to may start to lose your objectivity and worse your honesty. You get into this us against them type of mentality.
I am quite willing to sign a contract like tracy's and as we continue into the century more people are probably going to require these contracts, maybe this is the wave of the future we've created.
All I can say is somebody better hurry up an create a good thumb print or retinal scanner because there is no way in hell I am writing my name, address and signature 1000+ times a year things like an oil change or tire rotation

In a way , we have no one else to blame about our laws and lawyers than ourselves. Look at what compromises our Congress and Executive Branch - approx 50% Lawyers (217 practicing lawyers before election)

Who do you think elects these people? We do.
This is a reflection of our soceity. 200 hundred years ago, we elected lawyers because they were the most educated and had the most common sense, today there is a strong argument for the contrary.

As for the Darth Vader thing, I was just joking

In general though, this board had and will continue to press a lot of hot buttons and thought as we continue to explore the high and low ground of the integrity of doing business in this countrty and around the world.

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'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'84 300 SD (sold it)

[This message has been edited by mattsuzie (edited 08-10-2000).]

No doubt the U.S.has become the land of litigation , but there is one concept that comes to mind that I haven't heard much mention of - the concept of Principles . If my insurance company would rather pay (and run ) rather than stand (and fight)on principle, then I would be looking for a new insurer. Some of the blame lies with ourselves when we are prepared to let insurance companies (and by extension,dare I say it ...their Lawyers)dictate how we should do business.
In my part of the country an individual is only as good as their word. Call me naive,but I believe the days of business done by handshake will only die if we decide to stop shaking hands .