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FYI,

Hygroscopic

I've had to replace the metal brake lines on both of my 1982 MB. Both were rusted on the inside as well as the outside. I think the fluid replacement in a good idea.
The other safety practice I encourage on older cars of any manufacture is that whenever I am taking one of the older cars out, as the engine is warming up, I literally STAND on the brake pedal. If something is going to fail, let it fail in the driveway, not on the road.

I'm a chevy mechanic that has fallen in love with MB. I checked and flushed the brake fluids on my 68 chevy caprice every 2.5 years too. it just makes good sense to at least have a mechanic look at your brake system once in a while anyway. they might find a frozen wheel cylinder or bulging lines something...your pontiac had to have been garaged kept or in dry storage to keep the lines from collecting moisture damage from the elements over time to last that long.

MB appears to want to make sure their owners stay on top of the maitenance of their benz to get the most out of them, which in turn bolsters the MB brand for longevity and reliability.

I wish chevy owners cared as much.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/

Did they go out of business? Their land line is no longer connected, and their 877 number just goes to voice mail. it has been like this for the last week.

Before I place an online order, I wanted to ask a few questions and get another hose for my european bleeder.

Anyway, anybody know?

__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.

That's reason enough to look elsewhere for a different product.

__________________
Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"

Those were my thoughts exactly.

__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.

They just moved.

Contact the Motive Team
1.877-592-7253

Brittany from Motive Just called me back. They are still in business. She said that she was out of town toward the end of last week.

ALL IS GOOD WITH MOTIVE.

__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.

Ok...you guys are horrible with your responses! Give the guy a break!!!


So...a little advice....speaking from someone that has done my own repairs on many cars..not only my own Mercedes cars.

I've owned 2 Mercedes cars for over the past 20 years...and they have been wonderful to me. They are built very strong and fantastic in design. There are areas in the car that you probably will never see, but they are well planned, designed, and executed.

As far as the brake fluid.....I dont feel that it is necessary to have it flushed every 2 years. I've had this last Mercedes for almost 10 years and I have never flushed the brakes. I'm not even sure if it has been done....hhmm...maybe it's time. lol

The point is. If you feel like the brakes feel funny...perhaps mushy, or they dont feel strong...possibly you can see that the fluid looks murky...then it's worth flushing. I think possibly every 5 years is good depending on how hard to the car you are.

Open up the master cylendar....stick your finger in it...don't laugh. Rub the brake fluid between your fingers. You will be able to tell how dirty it is.
It should be clear. If it looks muddy, or feels too sticky..flush it.

If you have the brakes bled at each brake pad interval then you will probably be fine. If not...then you should have it flushed once in a while.

__________________
Mike
Sausalito, CA

Statments like "speaking from my experience," "I don't feel it is necessary," "fluid looks murky," etc. are meaningless.

What counts is scientific study and reporting. There are chemical and mechanical engineers with degrees that understand these things thoroughly. "Experience" means nothing in comparison.

Read this:
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf50412.htm

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

Throughout history, it has been the human experience that fine tunes, supports and substantiates scientific study and reporting. Science is not the end-all... and neither is experience. Both must be used together, in logical thought. Neither can exist without the other.

If it were not for the experiences we each 'experienced' in our lives, forums such as this would have no meaning. We simply would do a Google search and look up what some faceless engineer had discovered and wrote on the subject. But in virtually all cases, engineers cannot evaluate or foresee all possible scenarios, nor can they take into account all possibilities. Thus, we must fall-back to what others have experienced in similar situations.

Same is true for opinions, which actually are the idea seeds of great revelations. Just because someone has a difference of opinion does not mean that person is ignorant. It only means he or she has a different viewpoint. Some call it 'thinking outside the box'.

So experiences and opinions are very important. The argument that there are engineers that know more than us on a particular subject is certainly true. But as our beloved Mercedes has proven over the last decade, engineers are a tool of corporate financials. Examples I have lived through - have personal experience, if you will - include synthetic oil (when it was first introduced), mid-90's wiring harnesses, the ML (W163) et.al., etc., etc.

In addition , my experience is half the recalls or ‘campaigns’ (as MB likes to call them) are for engineering design flaws - science that has failed. As a result of science not being perfect, we must fall-back on what we each believe makes sense, given the data we have. Science + experience + opinion = success. No, experience and feeling do have meaning and are necessary.

BTW, for the record, I change my brake fluid every 2 years, regardless of mileage. I do it not because some MB Engineer tells me to, but because of my experience of the subject. If you’re interested, I'll share my experiences on the subject, but they are not very scientific.

__________________
MBCA Member #B012089 (Lone Star Section)
OBK Member #47 (W123 Division)
'96 SL600 (105K) Triple Black - Mein über-Fräulein
'79 240D (292K) Yellow/Saddle - Mein Spielzeug
'01 ML430 (123K) Black/Saddle - Wife's Ride
'94 SL500 (164K) Green/Champagne - Daughter's Dream
'73 450SL - RIP
'86 300E - RIP
'88 420SEL - SOLD
'94 S320 - SOLD

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Your forgot one of my favorites. 'I was always taught...........".

By whom, one might ask?

As one example of the benefits of preventive (notice I didn't say "preventative?) maintenance, my almost 24 year old Porsche has had it's brake fluid changed about 12 times and has never had any caliper problems. And, it's been a track car, a hangar queen and now is a concours car.

__________________
Roger E.

Fred Flintstone never chenged his brake fluid, but then again the weather in Bedrock was not very variable and he wore the same clothes day in day out.....

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

Modern brake fluids (DOT 4) are NOT hygroscopic and would probably survive neglect for a long time. In my opinion however, it is like not going to the dentist. You will eventually have problems like everyone else and neglecting the brake flush will only increase the problems and cost when it does happen. Are you a tinkerer? If so, flush and bleed every two years. You will find it good therapy for your car and your head.

Flushing the brakes usually costs like $100 including the ATE Super Blue fluid that I use, at a fair indy. That's it. Why not do it exactly???

You could have paid to flush every 2 years as required by the service guidelines for like 20 years the first time you have to replace a stuck caliper. Changing the fluid prevents corrosion. Just do the silly flush, it's cheap, and there's no reason not to.