The Outlaws of Gruppe B

[mercmad6.3]

I had a customer come in with a really rattly W108 280S which needed a tappet adjustment. I took a look at the cam which was munched with worn out lobes,rockers ,ballsruds and timing chain. I suggested that the cam be replaced so the owner turns up with a used worn out item...> I told him it needed regrinding and he wanted a "lumpy cam' ..
i got the local cam grinder to regrind it to an SL 09 grind . With new spacers ( they go on top of the valves) ,rockers and cam towers with a new chain,tensioner and tune up I took it for a short drive. it's quieter but man does it rev!!!!!!. No tacho but it revs way beyond normal levels now and pulls strongly all the way through the rev range.
For a reasonable cost it has made it a really nice car to drive now with plenty of punch .

[Carlo(s)]

*UP[DATE* Need help from the experts and euro 500 owners: Camshaft No. "GTS 5.8" stamped in my 500SEL Euro hot rod. What do I have? Would this be the reason why this Euro 500SEL runs harder than my old Euro 6.9 AMG?

Originally Posted by Carlo(s)

I'll try to find a dyno locally because I want to know. Granted 2:82 its doing its part but I have my 2 other euros as comparison: 420SE Police Option code with high hp German engine and the 48K mile original 500SL 245HP with factory tri-y's. I've driven all 3 to the top of a 5,500 mountain pass with 40% incline midway and I can tell that this 500SEL is doing 70MPH uphill with barely a touch of gas while the 420SE bogs down to downshift one gear and the 500SL doesn't downshift but cannot keep same pace even being a much lighter car.

[mercmad6.3]

it's not a Mercedes number or ID and certainly not AMG either. It sounds like a different cam grinders mark. Perhaps the engine is 5.8 Liter?. Is the engine prefix 117-961. ?
There was a high out put version available for 500's(220KW or 300hp DIN ) in the Sondershutz versions . If your car has an option code 822 then this is the engine you could have.

[GGR]

I think option code 822 (220kw-300hp) was only available on 117.968 560 engines, and not necesssarily on Sondershutz versions (Igot one out of a "normal" '86 560 Coupe).

Now the Sondershutz versions may have had other kind of performance upgrades.

Does your car still has the CIS system/ If yes, is the idle smooth or rough? What rpm is it idling?

[mercmad6.3]

GGR, I have had a 500 822 engine here ,they were sold in 1984-85 with the intention of providing a high output engine in anticipation of the forthcoming cat con legislation in germany (1988) . The cars were equipped with all the plugs etc for installing the convertor but none were fitted. The customer was advised that they could deliver the car to a dealer and the convertor fitted and they wouldn't lose horsepower.(wink wink )
And the car would still be legal.
The Exhaust manifolds are listed in the EPC as "not for cat con engines. A mate just bought a 560 sondershutz car here with a RuF engine. What a weapon!!, It revs and pulls really well. I'll get pics shortly as he wants me to repair some rust in the rear. It's a lot of car for $2000................

[Carlo(s)]

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

it's not a Mercedes number or ID and certainly not AMG either. It sounds like a different cam grinders mark. Perhaps the engine is 5.8 Liter?. Is the engine prefix 117-961. ?
There was a high out put version available for 500's(220KW or 300hp DIN ) in the Sondershutz versions . If your car has an option code 822 then this is the engine you could have.

VIN decoder shows Engine No. 117961 12 009649; heads have the euro version numbers. Car has other unusual options: MB factory engine oil cooler; FGS transmission; 2.82 LSD; lowered bilstein suspension; very rare 16x8 Conchi magnesium rims (Pentastar); not rare: zender skirts + front spoiler; heated front seats; orthopedic driver's seat.

[mercmad6.3]

All European cars have the oil cooler,it is the American versions that are the odd ones and came without it. . The diff ratio is standard and so is LSD with the high comp engine. You can tell the engine immediately because of the four exhaust manifolds instead of the two on the regular engines.
your trans should be a 722.356 .if you get a look under the car,check the number on the trans ID plate .

[Carlo(s)]

I have an AT# 1262711301? on this 500SEL euro.
I've seen many euro 500's from sellers and in person here in the U.S. that do not have the oil coolers on them so it appears that oil coolers were not installed on all euro 500's that are here in the U.S. Some diesel 300SD's I've been told show oil cooler but not all according to an old MB indie that services primarily diesels.

[mercmad6.3]

That is just the serial number for the trans, same as an engine or chassis number.
All Euro V8's got the oil cooler (even my ex japan 380 has one ) because they were expected to be run hard whereas Daimler figured the American market was one where most drivers were slower (55MPH speed limit was in force) and the engines would never work as hard.
If some one says their 500 is a euro and there is no oil cooler,i suspect they are mistaken.

[Carlo(s)]

To aid in resolving the "GTS 5.8" cams mistery: the number is cast between the 2d and 3rd lobes in the cam clearly visible by the oil filler hole and not in the back of the cam. In addition this car must have big jugs (pistons) because it is a torque monster from idle to high revs.

[mercmad6.3]

Well that clears that up. Thats a factory stock cam.
The only numbers to take any notice of are stamped into the rear of the cam ,on the very end close to the firewall.
This a genuine AMG 5.0 liter stage one engine I tuned for a customer a few years ago. It has solid tappets and the cams are stamped AMG 5.0 on the ends.

[daw_two]

Maybe someone reading this thread should come to Memphis, TN with a trailer and do somethign outrageous with the 1958 Ponton 220S that I have. Comes with a clean TN title.

[GGR]

Originally Posted by Carlo(s)

To aid in resolving the "GTS 5.8" cams mistery: the number is cast between the 2d and 3rd lobes in the cam clearly visible by the oil filler hole and not in the back of the cam. In addition this car must have big jugs (pistons) because it is a torque monster from idle to high revs.

Put your car on a dyno and post results here. By comparing power and torque curves and figures with stock ones we would be able to determine the extent of potential work done on your engine.