help with a decission - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stevo · #1 12-01-2011, 12:11 PM

I have a 79 240D that I bought ten years ago. The car was bought new by a guy that lived in the suburbs and had a trucking Co. in Seattle. He took good care of it, putting his diesel mechanics to work on maintenance when things were slow. Then he sold it to an employee that had the car for a couple years and I rescued it before is got too trashed. Its blue with pristine blue interior, I rebuild an 80 engine for it and found a 5 spd tranny, its a nice car... Except there are rust spots coming out on all the doors. Things under the car are not rusty as in nuts and bolts , jack holes OK even almost NO rust under the battery tray, all anodized trim near perfect, no dents. I really dont know much about rust or body work so my question is can a good body guy fix the doors and a couple spots on the quarter panels OR is it likely more rust spots will pop out under the new paint later. Which would be my uneducated guess. OR..would he find these potential trouble spots in the course of prepping the car for paint. I would remove all trim (except around windows), headlights, etc all the stuff that comes off easy.

The strange thing is there is no rust in all the usual spots where you'd normally find it on the W123. Its mostly the doors but a little on the quarter panels

A few years ago one could find a nice 123 body out west here and just swap everything over. Not so much now a days.

I was just going to drive it, but maybe theres hope, its really my favorite car and the wife loves it, hate to see it die of cancer.

Any advice?

Stretch · #2 12-01-2011, 01:09 PM

If I were you I'd do a real intensive rust witch hunt to make sure you know what you've got. I have a gut feeling that with spots showing on the outer surfaces you'll have problems under the Mercedes rubberised undercoat.

I don't want to be negative about it but I think your opinion of the car might change if you've already considered to just "drive it".

Check for crunchy undercoating under the sills - a bit inboard on the floor pan

Check also front and back lower edges of the rear wheel arches and in towards the sub frame.

If you can't find anything there then I'd go and get a body work chap to do the necessary work. A decent professional should be able to treat the rust - i.e. remove it! - and his repair should be good for years and hopefully many more years.

If you don't trust whoever you choose to do the bodywork you could always attack the rust with an angle grinder and wire brush attachment and do the old POR15 treatment (so de-greaser, prep, paint, POR15 self etch) and then get them to finish off... they probably won't be too impressed by your obvious lack of confidence in them though!

Stevo · #3 12-01-2011, 04:46 PM

Army

Thanks for the feedback. Actually I was doing some deep investigative rust hunting which is what inspired this question. I plan to get it up on a friends lift and get a good look. I've done quite a bit of work under there and never had any trouble getting bolts off so I'm hopping she'll pass a close inspection.

I looked at the hood hinge pockets, under the battery, of course (I dont mean I just looked at these places now for the first time

), under the doors there is some rust, none in the engine bay. My idea is not to wind up with a show car but just a nice daily driver type.

So it might be that a good body man could stop the rust, at least for the foreseeable future, that is starting to show through on the doors if we dont find problems elsewhere?
There are a few guys around the area that do body work and painting, if I dont know them someone I know does

Thanks, Ill be sure to check those areas you mentioned. I'ts really a sweet car and I'd make big points with my wife if I could keep it looking nice.

whunter · #4 12-01-2011, 06:15 PM

just in case you need to review other options.

1979 Mercedes 240D DIESEL Manual Transmission RELIABLE - $2450 (Stanwood)
1979 Mercedes 240D DIESEL Manual Transmission RELIABLE

seattle all for sale / wanted classifieds "240D " - craigslist

seattle all for sale / wanted classifieds "300D " - craigslist

240d on SearchTempest

Stretch · #5 12-02-2011, 12:17 PM

Good luck Stevo - I'm sure you'll be able to find someone trustworthy. If you can go and see the work they've done before.

Ask which rust proofing products they use etc

If you want to see some more possible problem areas I've got most of them covered here!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair-restoration/303669-my-w123-saloon-sedan-old-accident-repair-bit-rust-repair-thread.html

Stevo · #6 12-04-2011, 11:58 PM

Wow, what you are doing reminds me for working on an old wooden boat, the deeper you dig the more dry rot you find till you down to replacing the ribs and keel. I haven't the skill or desire to get that involved. I still cant find much rust on my 79 except whats coming out on the doors so i will consult with some folks around here and see what they say when they inspect it. Good luck with your project, and thanks for getting back.

Stretch · #7 12-05-2011, 03:21 AM

Indeed it is a bit like - this is my Great Grandfather's axe - he replaced the handle once, my Dad replaced the head once and I've replaced the handle twice...

Stevo · #8 12-05-2011, 04:17 PM

There are still good cars out there, at least it could be from looking at the add.
I have no interest in this car, just drooling

1985 Mercedes 300TD wagon 140k

Stretch · #9 12-06-2011, 04:57 AM

But Seattle is wet isn't it?

If it is wet it will have rust somewhere in some form or other. That rubberised undercoating traps water. I'm convinced that it is the biggest problem with these cars. Virtually everything else can be fixed with ease - but the body work... well I'm getting the practice in now...

Stevo · #10 12-06-2011, 01:21 PM

Like I said, my experience with serious rust is very limited as I've never lived where salt is used on the roads, so when I get a 123 I take it to my indy friend whos from New Jersey and knows about working on rusty cars. He takes a good look. We didn't discuss this but my impression was, in general, the rust belt cars show more damage underneath than the car that just live in a rainy climate.
In regard to that TD, I wouldn't be surprised if some minor rust could be found somewhere, under a door, battery, etc.. but I would be surprised if any rust was found affecting anything structural underneath. I bought a 240D once for my daughter that came from the windward side of one of the Islands up here, (Vashon), and it had serious body rust but not much underneath. Its still a mystery to me how rust starts under the paint, like with my 79, theres bright metal under the rust.

My 85 Euro 240D, imported from Rotterdam, lived in hot and dry inland Calif, absolutely no rust, but it had been parked outside allot and the interior was sun and heat damaged after less then 100K, cracked dash, wrinkled door panels (all swamped out with a pristine parts car interior). my thought has always been "if the body is good, I can fix almost anything else and have a nice car"

My body work usually looks worse when I'm done

KAdams4458 · #11 12-08-2011, 02:51 PM

For what it's worth, in the process of sanding down paint on my '77 300D, I noticed that I could see little rust bloom specks here and there through the factory primer that were not visible through the top coat. The factory primer is clearly not moisture resistant, so tiny defects in the top coat allowed water through. In other words, a microscopic defect in the top coat that exposes the primer will allow water to get right to the steel beneath the primer.

Stevo · #12 12-08-2011, 06:38 PM

Humm, That would explain it. The top, hood, trunk and front fenders have no "blooms". So it sounds to me like one would just about have to take the whole car down to bare metal to be sure nothing was starting up under the primer.. You said you "could see little rust bloom specks here and there through the factory primer" So you could just hit those spots and maybe figure if they haven't come out by now, they probably wont?

Its a sweet car, rebuilt engine,5 spd, no dents, uncracked blue dash, pristine blue interior, I want to take care of it, plus I'll make big points with my wife, as its technicality her car. It seems to me if the wife is jazzed about these cars it would pay to keep them happy

I dont do body work and am to old to start now, so I'll be looking for someone local when the time comes.

Thanks again for the input, thats the best theory so far.

KAdams4458 · #13 12-09-2011, 09:43 AM

To be certain no rust exists, yes; taking it to bare metal would be the only way to know for sure. That said, stripping the doors to bare metal won't take much work, and if the rest of the car looks good, just have the doors refinished to match the car. If all of the other paint is in good condition, I'd give it the benefit of the doubt at this point.

On my own car, I intend to strip the three, four, and five layers of repaint work off of the factory primer, and any place that has a rust speck showing through will get cleaned to bare metal, but mostly the original primer will stay. Then a good 2K epoxy goes on top of the original primer and bare steel, and the rest of the paint and body work - urethane sandable primer, polyester filler, sealer, and base/clear will lay on top of that. Every body many I know agrees that is a perfectly acceptable approach for a high-end car.

jmk · #14 12-12-2011, 04:43 PM

Don't strip to bare metal. See my comments on this.

Yes, the rubberized coating does become a detriment once it starts to fail. Before that, it actually is a blessing. Think about this: how many cars of this vintage have this little rust on them. There are a still a few of these things around here, and I am in the rust capital of North America.

That is why it is good to inspect and remove all loose rubberized coating, sand and prep with POR and and reseal with a combination of fiberglass cloth (not mat!) and roofing tar.

Seattle is wet and not salt free. You do get some rust.

KAdams4458 · #15 12-12-2011, 11:56 PM

I know that it seems like Seattle, and Western Washington in general are places where cars would rust. I used to think the same thing until I purchased my neighbour's owned-since-new '69 Dodge Dart in 2003 with 200,000 miles that had never been parked under cover, much less waxed or really cared for, but did come with the full service history, right down to the hand-written receipt from the day the car was purchased new off the dealer lot. The Exhaust system was original, but I removed the nuts at the manifold to down pipe without penetrating fluid and reused them after I was done replacing the gasket. Every bolt on the suspension was the same story - it came right off and went right back on. Believe me, rust is not a huge issue here. Even my '77 W123, which is from a year range famous for rusting out, is extremely solid after a life in Oregon and Washington.