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  #1  
Old 05-03-2013, 11:35 AM
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POR-15 gone / going for good? Introducing Zinga!

G'day Folks,

It is strange how fashion changes everything - well it may not be fashion; it could be economics...

I just had a look on line for a can of POR-15. My usual place here in Holland has stopped stocking it - there is only one supplier left and he sells at a premium tourist price. It can be got cheaper in England but the postage costs...

...so anyway looking for an alternative, the first seller now seems to be pushing this stuff along side the Brunox (made in Switzerland yeah right whatever stuff). This new has a snazzy name

Zinga

Flexible cold galvanising paint-like stuff from outer space!

Features active cathodic protection apparently...

I might give it a go - what do you guys think?
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



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  #2  
Old 05-03-2013, 02:24 PM
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Seems good. The only question I'd have is, "what are compatible paints?"
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2013, 02:43 PM
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They provide this solution

http://www.zinga.eu/en/products?task=download&ln=en&id=6

I get the feeling it is a bit like the POR-15 tie coat primer (that never dries in this climate!)
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #4  
Old 05-08-2013, 06:03 PM
jmk jmk is offline
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Well, it is a moisture cure urethane.

It is an aromatic like POR-15, but instead of using a separate aromatic urethane, it is using a self condensing urethane that reacts with moisture in the air. (Should cure well in Holland!)

Unfortunately, there is not enough info on this MSDS to predict whether this will work as well as POR. Since it is much harder to get crosslink density with a moisture cure, it probably won't work as well.

You would have to try it.
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2010 Toyota matrix
"cash for clunkers" took the van (at 18 yrs, 270,000mi)

'93 500 SEL
A bad addiction. Takes all of my cash.

'01 Chevy Prism
Made in my favorite auto plant--and easy to fix!

'12 Volvo S80 T6
Needed something that wasn't as hard to deal with as my bad addiction

'18 Mazda Miata
My '01 Prism is getting very, very old for an everyday car. No more boring cars for everyday transport!
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2013, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmk View Post
Well, it is a moisture cure urethane.

It is an aromatic like POR-15, but instead of using a separate aromatic urethane, it is using a self condensing urethane that reacts with moisture in the air. (Should cure well in Holland!)

Unfortunately, there is not enough info on this MSDS to predict whether this will work as well as POR. Since it is much harder to get crosslink density with a moisture cure, it probably won't work as well.

You would have to try it.
I might give it a go.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2013, 01:53 PM
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As an alternative to POR 15, I am currently using DOM 16. (Less expensive than POR and available at NAPA)

The restoration shop that did some welding for me recommended it. It seems very much like POR 15. It is a bit thinner and tends to be more runny than POR, but I find if I do flat surfaces first and then vertical, is firms up a bit in the paint tray allowing easier use on verticals.

As with POR, I am using it as a binder resin with fibreglass cloth for patching holes. Seems to work well.

Product is made by Dominion Sureseal - They make a large number of autobody products.

This is a write up on the product (from Australia!) :

SMASH SUPPLIES :: Paint :: Dominion 16 Ultimate Rust Preventative Coating 1LT

I read up on Zinga and watched the video. Seems like a good product for it's intended purpose. When i worked in the chemical industry, we used a similar paint for steel chimney stacks. Seems more of an industrial/commercial product than one for DIYers?
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Last edited by Graham; 06-22-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  #7  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:28 PM
jmk jmk is offline
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Just looked at the MSDS for DOM 16.

I agree that is similar to POR. It is a solventborne MDI, which is an aromatic isocyanate similar (or could be the same) as POR 15.

What they did is add what is called an "exempt" solvent. It is a solvent that does not count as a "VOC" because they supposedly do not create smog. The volume percent is discarded from the calculation for VOC's.

Make sure you wear a mask. The chemical formulae of the exempt solvents makes me nervous, and they tend to be very irritating.

Again, you need to try it out to see if it performs like POR. I think that this has a much better chance of working than the other moisture cure product.
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___________________________________________
2010 Toyota matrix
"cash for clunkers" took the van (at 18 yrs, 270,000mi)

'93 500 SEL
A bad addiction. Takes all of my cash.

'01 Chevy Prism
Made in my favorite auto plant--and easy to fix!

'12 Volvo S80 T6
Needed something that wasn't as hard to deal with as my bad addiction

'18 Mazda Miata
My '01 Prism is getting very, very old for an everyday car. No more boring cars for everyday transport!
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  #8  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmk View Post
Just looked at the MSDS for DOM 16.
Again, you need to try it out to see if it performs like POR. I think that this has a much better chance of working than the other moisture cure product.
Thanks for the analysis.

I have been using DOM16 on my current 300D repairs. I have used POR15 for about 22 years, so am familiar with it. DOM16 seems very similar, but it is slightly thinner. As a result, it runs more on vertical surfaces. Doing vertical surfaces last (after it starts to cure a bit) seems to solve that. Otherwise results look same as POR15. I am using it for painting as well as with fibreglass for closing smaller rust holes.

I was surprised to see all the other products that Dominion Sure Seal make and sell.
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Last edited by Graham; 06-25-2013 at 04:55 PM.
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  #9  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:59 PM
jmk jmk is offline
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try spraying "drier".(increase air in the air/paint ratio on your spray gun) Exempt solvents have a much slower evaporation rate, so that should explain the running in the paint.
__________________
___________________________________________
2010 Toyota matrix
"cash for clunkers" took the van (at 18 yrs, 270,000mi)

'93 500 SEL
A bad addiction. Takes all of my cash.

'01 Chevy Prism
Made in my favorite auto plant--and easy to fix!

'12 Volvo S80 T6
Needed something that wasn't as hard to deal with as my bad addiction

'18 Mazda Miata
My '01 Prism is getting very, very old for an everyday car. No more boring cars for everyday transport!
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2013, 09:44 AM
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Hey jmk and Graham,

..or anyone else who has a clue what a "solventborne MDI" is...

how bad is this stuff?

http://www.hammerite.co.uk/web/pdf/datasheets/SDSHM136.pdf

I've used it quite a bit on exterior metal railings and other stuff like hinges on garage doors. I've actually been quite impressed with it - though it goes on a bit thick for visible car body paint but for the underside I was just wondering...

...is it likely to be as good as POR15?

(Cost wise it is quite a bit cheaper than POR-15 or Zinga and readily available in Holland)
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2013, 12:11 PM
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A MDI is basically a Moisture Drying (Curing) Isocyanate (the spelling is nowhere close). Pretty much the same as POR and Zinga.

Hammerite seems to be more for external structures and stuff where the smoothness of the final finish is not critical. It'd probably be fine for any place which is not exposed to UV rays. It's kind of a colored "Super-glue", especially with it using a MEK solvent to carry it.

BayerMaterialScienceNAFTA.com

I would think it would be more brittle than either Zinga or the POR products.

For floor pans, boot decking, chassis work, etc, it should do fine. I don't think I'd use it any place where you had to merge exterior paint with it. MEK can do funny stuff to existing paint texture and adhesion.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2013, 12:33 PM
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Thanks Mike - I thought the point of this Hammerite "undercoat" stuff was that it could be used with other paints...

...may be I need to RTFM again...
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2013, 01:10 PM
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Yeah, well, using it with other paints is not the same as achieving an automotive class smooth finish.
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2013, 11:08 PM
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Stretch,
Hammerite is not sold in our part of the world. But I often see it mentioned on UK sites. If you Google Hammerite vs POR15, it seems it is not an equivalent product. But really, I have no idea. Like many solvent based paints, use with care and make sure ventilation is good.

We can buy rust paints in box stores. For example, Tremclad or Rustoleum seem mainly aimed at kind of jobs you have used Hammerite for. Hard to know if Hammerite fits into that group, or is more like POR15. Hopefully someone else might know.
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2013, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Stretch,
Hammerite is not sold in our part of the world. But I often see it mentioned on UK sites. If you Google Hammerite vs POR15, it seems it is not an equivalent product. But really, I have no idea. Like many solvent based paints, use with care and make sure ventilation is good.

We can buy rust paints in box stores. For example, Tremclad or Rustoleum seem mainly aimed at kind of jobs you have used Hammerite for. Hard to know if Hammerite fits into that group, or is more like POR15. Hopefully someone else might know.
I think it is much more like Rustoleum.

I've just found some other interesting stuff =>

Fertan GmbH Deutschland
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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